Questionable Breeder

Lori2147 · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: Questionable Breeder

This is almost a philosophical question, as opposed to a practical one - it may also serve as a warning to others.

Here goes...

When I was searching for a labradoodle puppy and researching breeders a veterinarian cautioned me about breeders that claim to test their dogs hips, eyes, thyroid, etc. He told me to request copies of the actual test results myself, not to take the word of the breeder.

I thought this was good advice, so I politely requested copies of test results from a breeder I was considering. I even explained that I was following the advice of my veterinarian and that I was not questioning her integrity or the quality of her dogs. Instead, I was trying to be an informed and cautious buyer. I offered this explanation because I felt a little guilty making the request, since I'm generally a trusting person.

Her response was quick and short! I got a quick reply in which she asked, "What do you want to know?"

Again, I explained that I wanted to see copies of the actual test results on the pups parents from her veterinarian or testing lab. And again I offered a bit of an explanation that included my suggestion from my veterinarian and my assurances that I didn't mean to offend her.

She ignored my emails from that point on and would not respond to any follow-ups.

I'm so glad I made the request!!! In addition to her response (or non-response) regarding the test results. She also told me that I would not be permitted on-site to see any of her adult dogs unless I agreed to pay a non-refundable deposit of 300.00. I have a very bad feeling about her breeding program now.

The disturbing thing about this is that she belongs to several reputable labradoodle breeder associations, she has a lovely website that has all of the "right things", and she seems to associate with several reputable breeders in my part of the country.

I suppose that it's possible that everything with this particular breeder could be perfectly legitimate. Her dogs could all test out perfectly. However, if this were the case, why would she refuse my request to see the test results of her dogs? (I only requested the test results from the parents of the pup I was considering, not all of her dogs!)

Has anyone else had this kind of experience?

To the breeders out there...Would you be offended if a potential buyer made this request?

Thanks.
_________________
Lori & Baxter

annieG · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject:

I have sent you a personel message. Look up at the top and where it says you have 1 new message..click on that Wink

_________________
AnnieG & Tanner

Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Lori2147 · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: Questionable Breeder

Hi - Thanks for the tip on finding the private message. I wouldn't have seen it otherwise. I responded to your PM in the same way.

Lori
_________________
Lori & Baxter

gracielou · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject:

I sent you a PM also.
_________________
Linda & Gracielou
Valley Center, KS
http://www.4pawspuppies.com

annabelles mom · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:46 am Post subject:

I'd like to know what others think - is it Taboo to request to see the testing results of the parents of the pups you are cosidering buying?
_________________

Mary & Annabelle
Zippity Doodle, Zippyity ay, My O My what a WonderDoodle Day !

http://www.picturetrail.com/luvlabs

annieG · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:28 am Post subject:

I can't imagine why a breeder would not want to give you that information if the dogs tested well. If I am off track, maybe breeders could enlighten me?
_________________
AnnieG & Tanner

Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

MaxandMe · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:41 am Post subject:

I have a rule when in DOUBT...DON'T.

Good for you talking with your vet and then listening to your gut afterwards!!! Very Happy

Anytime any person and/or business does NOT want to
produce documentation and/or answer pertinent questions to
your investment or purchase. Walk away as you did!!!

I myself cannnot imagine a breeder who would intentionally do this,
and this breeder to me is FAR from being professional, Reputable and
Responsible!!!

For Ex: I look at it this way, Doctors post their credentials, AKC dogs some breeders list their TEST results on their websites and/or produce them if asked, etc etc etc

OH I have heard of other breeders putting in their own personal
opinions on say "mini or medium" doodles or other types, meaning Putting them down Shocked

If i see that i walk away as that tells me
something about a PERSON and I do NOT want to do any business nor have contact with them in any way then.
on their breeding website

KUDOS to you for being a responsible person and asking to see!
or even have some type of verification
_________________
Annmarie, Max,& Peanut
Forum BLOG ARTICLE LINK http://blog.labradoodle-dogs.net/

"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France

Maureen · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject:

Gee, I can't imagine why someone would be offended at being asked to produce copies of the testing/screening they have (proudly) done!

Without wanting to sound like a tattletale, I am quite sure that the organizers of the organizations would be interested in your experience. It would be hearsay, but they would likely want to know.

Email me if you have any questions, using the link below
~M
_________________
~Maureen
LabradoodleRanch@aol.com
www.LabradoodleRanch.com

MaxandMe · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject:

QUESTION; can breeders be on the BBB list? you are a business
_________________
Annmarie, Max,& Peanut
Forum BLOG ARTICLE LINK http://blog.labradoodle-dogs.net/

"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France

Lori2147 · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject:

Thank you, Annmarie, for your kind words. Thank you to the rest of you that have responded. At first, I did feel awkward for requesting the test results. Then, I felt like I had done something wrong when the breeder stopped responding to my emails after the request. In retrospect, I'm sure I did the right thing. (Especially since I've heard from some of you!) As I said, this breeder belongs to the multiple (reputable) labradoodle organizations that we look to for quality assurance and integrity. My mention of the association with the various labradoodle organizations is not intended to cast a bad light on the organizations in any way. However, I think it was a revelation to me to discover that those associations did not guarantee the ethics of this breeder.

I'd like to share one other part of my story.

I'm working with a different breeder now. When I requested copies of test results and a copy of the pedigree from my current breeder, she was very willing to share that information. She made photocopies of the actual lab results and full reports (health certifications) from the lab and veterinarian. She sent them off to me without hesitation. In addition, she was happy to supply the name and phone number of her veterinarian. At one point, I was considering a pup was to be the result of a male owned by this breeder paired with a female owned by a different breeder. NEITHER of these breeders seemed at all bothered by my requests.

These breeders were also willing to arrange for me to meet with their adult dogs that were available (some lived in guardian homes). I feel so much better about dealing with my current breeder. She's answered all of my questions and she's been very patient and forthcoming with information.

My advice to anyone considering a pup...Request copies of all current health certifications on both of the parents. You want copies of the actual documents, not just a summary compiled by the breeder. They should look like lab reports and they should include the name of the lab or testing veterinarian. In addition, I'd ask the breeder if you could get the phone number of their veterinarian. Ask to meet the adult dogs in their breeding program (if you live close enough to make the drive). Ideally, it's best to see where the pups are raised. I'd say these things are more important than references from "happy clients". A breeder isn't going to give you the name of someone that's unhappy with one of his or her pups, so you'll only get the names of people that the breeder knows will give you glowing repots.

There are some wonderful conscientious breeders out there! Don't be afraid to ask for proof of any of the claims the breeder makes about their dogs or program.
_________________
Lori & Baxter

MaxandMe · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject:

Wow LORI and THANK YOU

i wish everyone considering a puppy finds this Thread and READS IT wholeheartedly

YOu have provided excellent info along with others here!!!

thank you so much! Very Happy

_________________
Annmarie, Max,& Peanut
Forum BLOG ARTICLE LINK http://blog.labradoodle-dogs.net/

"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France

hmz819 · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject:

Lori that is great research. I must admit I got lucky when I got Maya. I did not do as much research as you did. The breeder I got her from was the only one that I found that had the type of dog she is available. So I made the plunge. I was very lucky. I have since found out that she is an excellent breeder. Hopefully new doodle moms and dads will read this post prior to getting thier pup so they make sure they work with someone reputable.
_________________
Heather, Morgan, Maya, and Sadie
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion-Unknown

gracielou · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject:

Any reputable will give testing results as part of the puppy packet. My packet consist of testing on parents and Grandparents if I have them, pedigees for at least 5 generations sometimes 6, Vet checks on pup, and health record that shows what I've given the pup from wormer to shots. Microchip info, papers on Parvo, crate training, house breaking, ALAA papers, Health Guarantee, Basic care instructions, toys to go home with. Puppy food that I feed with a packet on that food.

I think that is it.

But if anyone ever asks for the papers a head of time I just let them have them. I don't see why any good breeder wouldn't unless they have something to hide.
_________________
Linda & Gracielou
Valley Center, KS
http://www.4pawspuppies.com

newaustralianlab · Junior Member Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 36

Hi Lori,
I am so happy to come across your message because I had a very similar recent experience. After deciding I wanted to buy an Australian Labradoodle and was willing to spend $2,500 + tax, I wanted to make sure I was buying from a reputable breeder and know exactly what I was paying for, along with the guarantee. I did a tremendous amount of research and found many breeders who were easily insulted by my educated questions. I couldn't understand how they weren't more than happy to share the health test results since most claimed they have top quality dogs and only breed the healthiest ones.

The breeder who I finally decided to buy from removed me from her waiting list because she heard from another breeder that I was going to buy one of their dogs. The truth was we decided to delay our purchase because the timing of taking a dog home in December wasn't great for our family and I thought it made sense to buy from the breeder who lives near our house. Now I'm insulted that she won't sell me a dog!!!

Evidently, many buyers are so desparate, they will mail deposits without visiting, without reviewing contracts, without requesting health test results, etc. etc. It seems the entire industry is divided as some breeder belong to the Austr. Labradoodle Club of America while others belong to the ASD Austr. Labradoodles. or others ILA.

mtd885 · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:01 am Post subject:

Is it against the rules to mention a bad breeders name online? I just had a horrible experience with a bad breeder that I'd like to warn the world about...mtd
OK I read the rules. I think it important for folks who may be like me who are trusting in nature to remember that ole cliche from middle school CAVEAT EMPTOR. LET THE BUYER BEWARE. Our 14 week old Golden Doodle arrived from Canada with papers stating she was 7 weeks old(read shots not up to date),She stunk like last months trash because she was filthy,had bilateral conjunctivitis, Ear mites and her purported mild personality was more like protected/guarded fearful. Like a cat she preferred being under a bed or a chair her first week here. When I contacted the breeder about my $600 layout for Vet bills not only for the dog but for our INDOOR Persian cat who has never had these ailments! Secondary ear infections to the mites have to be treated now...UGH! I think it's horrible that puppy mill dog breeders prey upon our emotions by posting CUTE pics on the net to lure their victims in. I will NEVER again buy a dog sight unseen on the net...mtd