What is an F1 bred with a multigen?

netsirk · Junior Member Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 98

I am looking at getting a labradoodle puppy and the mom is an F1 with what looks like a hair coat and the sire is a multigen with a wool coat. I have been told the puppies will be F1B, but I have also read that an F1 bred with an F1 or higher gives you F2 pups. I have high allergy problems, so after research have concluded an F1B or F2B labradoodle is better, (or true multigen). Can you please shed some light as to the F1/multigen offspring?

Thank you in advance.

debbildog · Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:38 am Post subject:

Well, a few of us here have new puppies from Diane's last litter. The dam was an F1 (with a scraggly looking fleece coat) and the sire (full fleece coat) was a multigen. I believe Diane called them F2's.

Our pup Sandy is low/non shedding (only when I brush) with no allergy problems from our allergy sufferers. And he is the *best* tempered dog I've ever met.

Good luck!

edited to add... I doubt it would be called an F1B or F2B unless somewhere in the line there was a "B"ackcross to a poodle.
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Jac · Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject:

Hello, welcome and congratulations on your new puppy!
It would be an F2. You only go up one generation from the lowest generation parent, no matter how many other generations are in the other parent.
An F1B is a backcross to a parent breed, most always a Poodle (it is very rare, and not advisable to breed back to a Lab because the idea is to get a good Lab-Poodle cross, but improve the coat.)
It is possible that there could be one or two throw backs from the F1, so be sure that your breeder knows that you must have a dog that won't cause allergic reactions.
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dixiedi · Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject:

Hello Netsirk, as debbildog said, I just had a litter of puppies from an F1 momma and a 3rd generation Australian Labradoodle and they are called ALF2's. I must say that this litter of pups were the most beautiful pups I have had in my 3 years of breeding Labradoodles and they had the most wonderful temperaments. Their coats were phenomenal. Needless to say, I was very pleased with them Smile

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movistar · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject:

yep to all of the above!

I breed f1b's which is an f1 to a poodle (hence the B for backcross)

not familiar with many f2b as there are restrictions on how many times one should breed back to a poodle.

however with all that being said I have successfully and repeatedly placed my f1b's in homes with people that have allergies Smile

Maureen · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:53 am Post subject:

dittos here.....you'd have an f2 puppy. Maybe an ALF2 as Diane has mentioned, if one parent is an Aus. Multigen dog.

I might be breeding an f1b girl I got last year, to an f1, and I'm told that the "b" is dropped after the generation it creates, so those puppies would also be f2's. As Jac said, the numbers progress from the lowest one.

We're following the scientific, genetic hybrid "rules" by the way, not making this up!
Very Happy

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dixiedi · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:20 am Post subject:

It almost takes a degree of some level to understand all the different generations and what they are called, UGH. It gets so confusing Rolling Eyes

It's hard enough for us breeders to keep up with what they are called much less the general public Smile

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If you want to feel rich, just count all of the things you have that money can't buy...

Jac · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:47 am Post subject:

So true! And, just when you think you have it figured out...they change it! Laughing

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Maureen · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject:

no changing allowed!! Very Happy

Seriously, it detracts from our credibility as Breeders if there is a capricious nature to the naming of the generations in a hybrid.

Someone (years ago) obstinately called F1's, or any Doodle with a scruffy, coarse coat a "hair" coat, when that is more accurately describing a POODLE's coat, or fur. They have been described as having a "hair" coat for over 100 years, because they have a type of fur that resembles our hair: it needs brushing for healthy follicles, and it grows endlessly. Was it a marketing ploy to supplant the name? Or just an impetuous idea? No idea. It is a personal pet peeve of mine that the term "hair" has been stolen to describe a coat that is anything BUT a true hair coat. That happened too long ago for me or anyone to crusade against, or change, but I'm using this little box on my pc to vent a little. Wink

thanks!
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LabradoodleRanch@aol.com
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MaxandMe · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject:

hahahahaa as the say Maureen: "you go girl" Wink

ok My max is considered mostly a hair coat with a slight mixture of fleece he is a F1...peanut is a goldendoodle f1 that is fleece coat.

NOW i have really bad allergies and one son has bad asthma. To date we have no problems with allergies and Max sheds minimally and peanut is blowing her puppy fur. HOWEVER most people do tend to lean to getting F1b's or Alf's etc as they tend to be very low to non-shedding and possibly more allergy friendly.

For me, i sweep once a day for a few minutes and we're fine. I also brush Max and Peanut almost daily for a few minutes.
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Maureen · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject:

I think Max is adorable! And we ALL love Denver, of course!

I use the term "Scruffy" to describe the more wiry, coarser coats, because f1b's CAN have those too! I lower the price to the f1 price, since they look like f1's, and we're all happy.

By the way YOU ALL are welcome to use that term (Scruffy) instead of "Hair" to describe the coarser coats! Wink

This is Daisy as we called her, at 8wks and at 6-8mos:

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gene · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject:

Maureen....I've missed your puppy pictures!! So glad you're back!! I love a scruffy looking doodle! Of course my Jonah makes me like that!
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Maureen · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject:

gee, thanks, Gene! I have more pictures of our new pups, of course....the way this forum operated on my pc was frustrating, not smooth, so I'm afraid I stopped coming. Lo and behold those problems aren't here right now!

So I hope I can come back and not get so frustrated....thanks again Gene.
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LabradoodleRanch@aol.com
www.LabradoodleRanch.com

blueteal · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject:

I love the scruffy looking Doodles too
But I do refer to Denver as being a smooth coat
because people who do not know much about Labradoodles
do not understand why he is not all curly.

My cats don't care about curly coat or smooth coat just
as long as he keeps his big paws off the treats.
He is such a sweetheart of a dog that he will not touch their food.
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