[Maddie]

Hi

I live in New York, and have been researching to try to find the right match puppy for our family.

We are a family of 4 in a small 3 bedroom home with a small yard.

We have a 3 year old cat that has no experience with dogs (a turtle and 2 frogs).

I decided on a doodle due to their family friendly temperment (in the hopes that the pup would do well with my cat), but in a smaller size as we have a smaller home.

I would like a female F1 mini with a flat hair coat-we do not suffer from allergies.

I am having difficulty deciding on a reputable breeder at a price I can afford.

My first hope would be to find a breeder in driving distance, but I have been unable to find one.

My next hope was to find a breeder I could afford including shipping.

Has anyone heard anything about Pine Lodge Labradoodles? Are they reputable dealers?

At $1000 they are a bit pricey for me, has anybody found a reputable breeder with a more reasonable price?

I am open to ANY AND ALL HELP AND SUGGESTIONS

Thanks

[dixiedi]

Most F1 puppies range from 750 - 1,000 and that is without shipping. If you find a puppy that is lower in price, they more than likely will not have had any health testing done on the parents and do not offer a good guarantee. Buying a puppy from untested parents is only asking for trouble and you will be paying more in the long run on medical bills. Please be careful of whom you buy from. If you can't afford to buy from a reputable breeder, you might try one of the rescue sites or a rehome.

I wish you well
_________________
Di & Archie

If you want to feel rich, just count all of the things you have that money can't buy...

[Maddie]

Hi Di,

This appears to be a newer breeder. I asked about health testing for the parents. She said the mother (lab) had elbow and hip testing. but there was no information for the toy poodle father. However she does offer a 24 month health guarrantee.

Has anyone ever heard anything about Pne Lodge Labradoodles (good or bad).

I am considering an F1 mini. She is asking $1000.

Is this too risky a purchase?

Madelyn

[movistar]

I typed a whole bunch but then I erased it I felt like I was lecturing lol

A guarantee is important. If you look around this forum there is a post about a 15 month old that has hip dysplasia. If the pup was bought from a reputable breeder the puppy owner will be able to contact the breeder and the purchase price of the pup will be refunded to help offset medical expenses. This is the type of breeder if I were buying a pup I would want.

As far as a newer breeder, every breeder was a newer breeder at one time! Its the quality, temperment, testing and guarantees that matter.

If you are a little nervous perhaps ask for references. I put prospective puppy parents when they request it in contact with existing puppy parents and they discuss things such as temperment, ease of potty training, allergy issues, family transition etc.

Hope this helps without sounding bossy! A puppy is a huge decision and a 12-15 year commitment, but oh what a joy it is!

[dixiedi]

I would be very concerned with the big difference in size of the parents. I don't breed mini's but from what I have read, breeding mini's is something that you downsize gradually to. By breeding the lab to a toy poodle, there is great concern for the puppy's joints. There are steps to be taken when downsizing and, like I say, I don't do it so I'm not really sure how it works. But, for an example, take a small lab and breed to a miniature poodle then keep a small breeding quality female from that litter and breed back to a toy poodle. I hope I am making sense here. Just make sure you buy a mini from someone who knows what they are doing and that both parents have testing done and they can provide you with copies of these tests.

I don't believe you can get a true mini with an F1 but maybe someone that breeds mini's can chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong.
_________________
Di & Archie

If you want to feel rich, just count all of the things you have that money can't buy...

[movistar]

dixie,

that was part of what I was going to say but I didnt know how and I don't have any mini labradoodle experience either, but was involved in the poodle community and to me the size difference is way big.

here is the standard currently for mini's if it helps, try to get assurance the dog will match standards, from what I havae been reading there is a huge disparity in pup sizes when breeding 1st gen mini's

Miniature: 14 to 16 (not over 17) inches (or about 35-42 cm) from the wither to ground measurement. There is no correlation between height and sex in the Miniature size. Weight range tends toward 7-12 kg or (about 15-25 lbs). Undersize is a Major fault.

[Maddie]

Thanks for your help- and keep it comming!

Don't worry about sounding "bossy" I welcome advice from people with more experience than me, thats why I'm here!

I realize that this choice will have a long term impact on my family, (and the pup), thats why I'm trying to be careful.

Actually, although I am looking for a mini, I will be happy with a mini to medium. I realize that the labradoodle is a newer "mix" "breed" whatever, and breeders cannot be held accountable for predicting "exact" adult size.

I would shop for a medium, but it is my fear that if I don't account for a reasonable margin of error, I might wind up with a large dog who will not be happy in a small home with a small yard.

So I decided to search for a mini, hoping that adult size would be mini to medium.

Does that sound about right?

Madelyn

[movistar]

I would think a breeder that says she sells mini's would sell minis. That sounds more right!

Check your messages I sent you one (Click on you have messages up above in the blue banner!)

[Jac]

Hi Maddie,

Welcome to the forum. I hope that you will be able to find the right dog...from the right breeder.

I don't know much about breeding minis because I specialize in standards, but it is my understanding that true minis are bred over time and consistently produce smaller dogs. A mini Labradoodle is not the same as a toy sized dog...mini Labradoodles can be the size of a small Lab.

A reputable breeder producing minis will talk to you at length about their program and what you can expect based on their experience, but I would be willing to bet that you will pay over $1000 (probably much higher) for a mini from a good breeder because it does take many years of breeding to consistently claim to breed minis.

You can pay less for your Labradoodle up front, as you have seen in the various advertisements...but it is my opinion that when you do, you may end up paying much, much more in the long run because the dog is from parents who have not been tested and you are buying from breeders who do not offer warranties.

You mention that the breeder you found has a warranty and this is good...but that the father was not tested. Reputable breeders will NOT breed their females to an untested male, and visa versa. We carefully select the parents of our litters to ensure that the heartache associated will illness will be a longshot.

It is one thing to take a gamble on the health of a puppy and figure that you can pay for any damages...it is another thing to take the health of every puppy seriously. I won't produce a litter unless I sincerely believe that I have done all that I can to make sure that the puppies will not suffer from diseases. A warranty will help defray costs, but can't eliminate pain and suffering.

Still, these pups all need and deserve good and loving homes. My concern is that when we support irresponsible breeders (by buying their pups) then we are rewarding them...and I don't personally feel that it is the right way to promote healthy dogs, in the long run.

I am not prepared to say whether or not your breeder is a good one...but I will say that you would be very wise in looking around...and please consider that while you may pay hundreds of dollars less at the time of purchase, you might be doomed to pay many more hundreds, even thousands, when your puppy becomes ill...and worse, you may have to watch it suffer a lot while trying to overcome the disease.

Another thing is that a new breeder, while offering a warranty, may not be around when you come to the breeder asking for the warranty. There is a good chance that this breeder will learn, the hard way, that it costs too much and is extremely hard to be a breeder...and if they close shop...what good is your warranty?

I wish you all the best and I hope that you will find a reasonably priced puppy for your home...you might want to find a breeder near you and ask to become a guardian for one of their dogs...this is an excellent opportunity to get a quality dog...at a very inexpensive cost ... or possibly at no cost at all.
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jacque.bayley.lexie.chase.rosie.nitos.amelia.dupree.madison.sherwood.gerry www.backporchlabradoodles-jacque.blogspot.com www.backporchlabradoodles.com

[Maddie]

Hi Jac,

Thank you for your help. I value your experience, as well as your advice.

I too remain concerned about the breeder I found, and have not purchased a puppy as yet. Although an experienced breeder is surely a safer route, the reality is that there is no guarantee that any breeder will still be around two years later.

However I remain concerned that both parents have not been health tested, and as a result, I will probably not take the risk of choosing that breeder.

Regarding the issue of size, I am looking for a "mini" because a larger dog (60-100lbs) would be unhappy living in my smaller home and property. But the reality is that I feel a medium size dog (25-45lbs) would be a fine match for my family. Depending on who is writing the description, this can be a medium or mini.

I have read that a "true mini" takes several generations. But I was hoping to find an F1 mini, hoping for a medium sized dog. So the search continues......

I found another breeder (also new) who I like quite a bit. Both of the parents have been tested, and there is a 2 year health warantee. However she is asking 1500 plus shipping. She said she might consider 1200 plus shipping, but this is pretty high for me.

Has anyone ever hear of Goldenstar Doodles?

Also, I have had no luck at all finding a local breeder, that would have been my first choice. So I really have no opportunity to foster. Fostering is a great idea, although it would be pretty tricky with my cat. I expect getting the cat and dog to get along will be alot of work. Its worth it for a permanant pet, but I'm not too sure about doing it for a temporary situation.

Thanks for the help, and keep it coming!

Maddie

[Jac]

Oh, Maddie...there is a difference between guardianship and fostering! Guardianship means that you take a breeding dog for a breeder, you raise her (or him) and have certain conditions...after the dog has a few litter, she/he is retired, spayed or neutered and given to you! It isn't temporary at all.

Here is a listing of breeders and there are a couple in your state, maybe they know of others: http://www.ilainc.com/guest/MemberBreederlist.aspx

About size...you can get a small standard Labradoodle...my F1 is only 45 lbs and she is within the range of a mini. Her female puppies are often small like her too.

Just wanted to give you some options...I hope that it helps a bit.
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jacque.bayley.lexie.chase.rosie.nitos.amelia.dupree.madison.sherwood.gerry www.backporchlabradoodles-jacque.blogspot.com www.backporchlabradoodles.com

[Maddie]

I realize I could go with a small female F1 standard, but breeders are unable to accurately predict size.

My fear is that I will choose a pup who might be a 45 lb adult, but she may also be a 70lb adult.

I don't want to wind up with a 70lb. dog.

Is there anyreliable data about runts?

Maddie

[gracielou]

As far as runts go I had a Lab litter (when I raised Labs) and had a smaller male pup and he ended up being bigger than his Father who weighed in at about 70 lbs so don't put to much stock in that either.

One thing I've heard and I don't want a bunch of backlash from this I'm just saying I've heard this, if you take a toy and breed with a larger dog you could be hurting the bone structure. Your best bet to me is to find someone who has downsized without the use of a toy in the beginning. They just keep using smaller females and smaller males to get the size they are wanting to me this sounds like the way to do it.

Just my opinion not saying it is a FACT!!! Please no backlash that is not my intention here.
_________________
Linda & Gracielou
Valley Center, KS
http://www.4pawspuppies.com

[dixiedi]

A lot of people think that a runt is the smallest puppy in a litter, and even though it is, a runt is a puppy that has had some problems and gotten off to a rough start. Let me add that I agree with Gracielou, even though a puppy is the smallest of the litter, it doesn't mean it will remain the smallest months down the road. Pups go thru growth spurts at different stages, some have their spurts right off the bat and then slow down while others don't hit their spurts until months later and oftentimes will pass up their littermates in size and weight.

Please don't buy the smallest pup in a litter and think it will stay on the small side
_________________
Di & Archie

If you want to feel rich, just count all of the things you have that money can't buy...

[Jac]

Linda and Diane are spot on!

One of the major problems that I have heard about (including standard sized mixed breeds) is jaw line up...sometimes the teeth and jaws of different breeds don't match...so it takes many cautious matings by good breeders to produce a good smaller dog.

With our dogs, since I live with the parents, I can usually be accurate in guessing the size. I don't tell people that our dogs will be smaller unless I have a good indication (over time) that they will. For instance, Harold and Lisa have the puppy we called "little Pink" and she was consistently more petite...her bone structure, her face and her height...she was not a runt of the litter...all of our pups were similar in size at birth...but as she grew, I could tell that she would be smaller...and I am willing to bet that she won't be more than 50 lbs...if that...she will probably top out at 45 lbs.

I could tell simply by knowing the parents and by watching the babies grow...each one will "take after" one of the parents or they will be a mystery...but if they are taking after a parent and growing according to the same rate as the smaller parent (and consistently smaller than the siblings) I am pretty certain that the pup will be smaller, like her mother. (But I won't guarantee size...not many breeders will.)

The only way you can get a promise for a small dog is to use a very experienced breeder...and more likely than not, you will pay more for that experience.
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jacque.bayley.lexie.chase.rosie.nitos.amelia.dupree.madison.sherwood.gerry www.backporchlabradoodles-jacque.blogspot.com www.backporchlabradoodles.com