[ellabee]

Just reinforcing the 'time out'...that works well for us. If Dex is a little out of hand, I take him by the collar very matter-of-factly, and say "too bad!" - and walk him over to his crate. He usually knows exactly what's up, and goes in. I leave him there for about 5 mins or so, and most of the time that is all it takes to mellow him out again.

But the most important thing to remember is that there should be no anger in your voice. Just kind of a sing-song "too bad!". They get the idea.
_________________
-Lynn
& "Dexter #3" (third Dexter to join the forum -
and Sandy's littermate!)

[hmz819]

My new trainer we have had one week of class is not against physical touch. By no means does she encourage hitting your dog though. Just a nip from your hand at the dogs neck or leash jerk to get their attention. And she enforces you only tell your dog once rule. If you say "Maya off" and she doesn't do what she is told you physically make her do it. Don't make a big deal about it....just lead her off. If she gets off by herself you have a big party. Pick a trigger word that you will always say when she did something good. I use YES. I say Maya off and she gets off I say YES really excited and follow with good girl and sometimes a treat if it's a new behavior. We have 5 more weeks of training so I will let you know how it goes.
_________________
Heather, Morgan, Maya, and Sadie
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion-Unknown

[dudlmom]

Oh I definitely agree. They understand words they choose to understand, a lot like kids. We have to spell walk, ride, treat, go, but if they hear the word NO, they act deaf. My little one is much more independent that his brother Max. Max is more sensitive also. Unfortunately, we have used physical punishment on Max and he has growled at us. I am trying not to do it, but sometimes I loose my cool and regret it after. He is 3 this month and I want to make sure he has a very long and Happy life. I would love some other ways to redirect behavior.
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Melinda, Max & Rocky

[emilee]

we started doing "time outs" in the bathroom for kumo about 2 weeks ago. he does this barking thing while he's playing -- he rarely barks any other time, but at the dog park he will sometimes bark and bark and bark, and now that we have ursus he's starting to do it inside too. it gets really loud! so, when he starts barking, we say "time out" and put him in the bathroom. i don't want to use his crate for corrections like this -- i don't want him to have negative associations with his crate.

the interesting thing is, at first we had to physically put in in the bathroom. but in the past week, he's started taking himself in there when we say "time out"! it seems to be helping with the barking, too.

-em

[lmtoth2]

Em - Dexter's new time out spot is the bathroom too for the same reasons you posted. Most of his time outs are for barking at Kirby to play with him. Sometimes Kirby just wants to sleep and Dex doesn't get it.
_________________
Leslie M

[dudlmom]

Thanks both of you. I think I will try the bathroom thing. My main concern with this is I'm afraid he will claw at the door and bark because he is alone. I know Rocky would do both. He can't stand to be apart from the group. I know that is the goal - teach him if you do this, then you will be apart from everyone. It is just hard to know what to do in every situation. We have moved with Max 2x and Rocky once, and I think that the moving has caused a little of the problems as well - more sensitive, barking, growling sometimes(Max) and the dog to dog aggression.
_________________
Melinda, Max & Rocky

[Jac]

Well, I am not a fan of dominance.
My dogs respect me and my authority and I have never once "rolled them over" to dominate them.

I know that Cesar Malan teaches this as a necessary method of training...but not all animal behaviorists agree...from the New York Times comes an opinion from animal behaviorists. The article is very much against Cesar's methods, but since I do not like the introduction of the article, I am only going to copy the part that makes sense to me...here it is:

"Unlike their wolf forebears, dogs exist in human society. They have been selectively bred for 15,000 or more years to live with people. Studies have shown that almost from birth they are attentive to people, and that most are eager to please, given proper instruction and encouragement.

"But sometimes the relationship goes very wrong, and it is time to call on a professional.

"Focefully rolling a big dog on its back was once recommended as a way to establish dominance, but it is now recognized as a good way to get bitten. People are advised not to try it. In fact, many animal behaviorists believe that in the long run meeting aggression with aggression breeds more aggression....

"More important, aggression often has underlying medical causes that might not be readily apparent — hip dysplasia or some other hidden physical ailment that causes the dog to bite out of pain; hereditary forms of sudden rage that require a medical history and genealogy to diagnose; inadequate blood flow to the brain or a congenital brain malformation that produces aggression and can only be uncovered through a medical examination. Veterinary behaviorists, having found that many aggressive dogs suffer from low levels of serotonin, have had success in treating such dogs with fluoxetine (the drug better known as Prozac). "

I know that many doodles are "talkers" and, as such, will "sass" you when they are being scolded...but I do NOT call this aggression...I call it communication.

Growling is not always a bad thing (I know that people will disagree with me here...)

Here is an excellent article about dogs growling...the information covers many, many things and is a good resource: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=2258
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jacque.bayley.lexie.chase.rosie.nitos.amelia.dupree.madison.sherwood.gerry www.backporchlabradoodles-jacque.blogspot.com www.backporchlabradoodles.com

[tykesmom]

Tyke is one of those "sassers" Jac mentioned - I think it's kind of cute, although it drives my Mom crazy when Tyke "talks back" to her after being corrected. I've found that putting her on her side does very little good - she takes it as a game, and has learned to lie quietly so that I will let her up, then she jumps up and continues her bad behavior! The worst thing for Tyke is to be ignored - when I have had "enough" and the "no" doesn't work, she has a time out in her crate. (the one without the cool toys!)
_________________
Kim and Tyke

"You say dogs will not be in heaven? I tell you they will be there long before any of us." - Robert Louis Stevenson

[Megan]

Our dog trainer spoke of the holding down of dogs at last class-she felt it a huge No-No. I had never heard of it.
She said many people have been bitten while doing so, & doesn't teach the desired behaviour.
As everyone has attested to-praise & treat as soon as he does what you asked, even if a correction was needed, treat as soon as he's where you want him.
Since Kahlua is large (compared to the rest of the class) one thing they had me do in the beginning was to stand up from my chair when correcting him, to let him know I'm the boss.
Come to think of it , after 9 classes I no longer ever have to do so.
Today Kahlua did a 5 min down stay with 13 other dogs in the hall (2 were within 6 feet of him)-leash on floor, owners sitting in chairs 15 feet away!
Walking about on loose leash but not pulling or walking about staying @ my side is not going as well but we found out we all passed grade 1. Graduation in 1 week
_________________
Megan

[lmtoth2]

I'll just clarify...we do not force anyone on their back. My husband has put Kirby on his side and Kirby will roll onto his back himself and we'll rub his belly.

He has probably only done this 2-3 times since we had Kirby. Kirby now rolls onto his back for belly rubs on his own all the time. So it doesn't have to be a negative thing at all.

To each their own - we would never have to do this with Dexter because he never pushed the "who's in charge" as much as Kirby did....
_________________
Leslie M

[gene]

We use ah ah as the no term. When that doesn't work, I am a growler. First time doing it with each dog got the funniest look from them, but did stop the behavior. I use it rarely. For Jonah when the nose gets too close to Dad's plate.....with Miko when she brings the third article of clothing she's scavenged from the supposedly closed dresser drawer up on the bed.
_________________
gene , jonah , miko and rumor

http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p46/jonahfus
"A dog teaches a boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down." - Robert Benchley

[Natalie]

I totally agree that with a generally submissive obedient dog I would never think it is appropriate to take them to the floor.

Jac and others, how did you get your doodle to respect your authority???? I think that is where I'm running into trouble. My dog is not naturally respecting me and I've been working on the making him sit to eat and walking ahead and making him sit next to me...etc., but when he does something like pull on my pants and shake his head and growl. I say, "no, Puddles" firmly, open his jaw and remove his teeth and then he comes at me again where I then put him in "time out" in our bathroom and he comes out and we are at it all over again. He's just wanting my attention and wanting to play, he's not being "aggressive," but I'm trying to teach him that this play is too rough. So, I know this is a respect issue and am at a loss on how to get the dog to respect us. It seems to me that so many of your doodles just naturally respect you when you correct they listen and it makes me so sad that at the slightest correction my dog instead gets defiant...UGH. Back to the trainers!!!! It's been two steps forward three steps back with his training and I think I'm just getting impatient, he just needs more time. Again, thank you all for your posts!!!!

[lmtoth2]

I just remembered something...Puddles is very young, correct? Dexter would totally jump and nip at us and was a big brat at a young age. I think your discipline for a puppy can be different from an older dog.

The whole jumping and biting (I think) is your puppy not understanding the right way to play. When Dex would do this, I would tell him "no" and put a proper chew toy in his mouth and tell him "good chew Dexter". If he did the inappropriate behavior I would correct him a 2nd time. If he did it a 3rd time he would get some quiet alone time It took a few weeks (maybe a month) of the bad behavior to work through it. He would have me in tears some nights...he ripped holes in many shirts and pants.

We tried to teach Dexter that if he didn't play nice he didn't get to play at all It got a lot better. Dex is a very sweet loving doodle, but he is a bit hard headed too and it took us awhile to get through to him that he doesn't always get his way Trust me, many people on this forum had the same problem with their puppy not knowing the right way to play - it gets better
_________________
Leslie M

[Natalie]

Thanks so much, Leslie! He is just 16 weeks and I know a lot of you warned me that puppies go through stages. It's just so exasperating sometimes...LOL! I've been really concerned because the trainers I've talked to who come highly recommended use really harsh methods and I'd prefer not to go to those measures if I can (i.e. physical force). I think it's just having more patience and giving him more time to get it...I need to tell that to my husband whose pants got ripped this morning on the way to the office I appreciate everyone's insights because I just needed to know that we aren't missing any "magic" techniques. This forum is the BEST!

[hmz819]

No you are not missing anything. It takes a lot of time. Maya has made progress but I never dreamed it would take this long to train her. She still has a long way to go til she is where I would like her to be.
_________________
Heather, Morgan, Maya, and Sadie
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion-Unknown