[Napathedoodle]

Ok, newaustralianlab, you're using some information to attack breeders who could quite possibly have no association.

From my understanding, its soley been TP whose done terrible things with her breeding dogs, and she's just opened a puppy mill....

To clarify, the difference of opinion between ALAA and ASD is NOT about line breeding. The two have different breeding standards (which are similar but differences that weren't able to over come), and different views about generations. But, you really should trust your gut. Associations aren't everything. Being associated with different Associations don't guarrantee a healthy pup. There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee, as is evident in Napa. Everything his breeder did was what was supposed to be done, and he's just well, medical prone.

Secondly, the breeders of Australian doodles are NOT selling "damaged" pups.

I've met Curtis personally. He is a responsible breeder. I would have bought a puppy from him, but at the time he didn't accept credit cards which was my preferred method of payment. He also has strong beliefs about training the pups before they leave him, and he doesn't promote his pups so he can spend more time with them, training them, so there's less of a chance of a problem later in life.

If a pup develops medical problems, the only thing to do is pray you've got insurance if they develop a medical problem that is not covered under your warranty.

Napa is a fluke. If you notice, I'm the only one on this website that's got the problems I've had. But, Napa is still a wonderful puppy. Napa's breeder has also offered to take Napa back. But, when I bought Napa, I made the choice to take care of him to the best of my abilities.

But, if you want a dog with no problems, then you shouldn't get a dog, commit yourself to not doing anything if the dog does develop medical problems. My parents have done this, but luckily our dog doesn't have anything wrong.

Think, there have been countless other dogs who haven't had medical problems, but have ended up needing serious medical help- Dexter with the tennis ball, Tanner with bloat, Jonah with the torn paw (i think). Having a dog is like having another child. You need to be prepared that they're going to do stupid stuff, and its going to get them in trouble, and possibly medical trouble.

And to say "you almost believe you need to get lucky to get a healthy puppy" is rediculus since hardly any labradoodles have problems. I could tell you equally as scary stories about plenty of other breeds. My extended family loves Labs. They've had plenty of problems, including hip, elbows, tumors, etc. There are no guarantee when it comes to living things. It just doens't happen.

But, you can also ask for pedigrees and do your own searching. If you feel there's inbreeding, don't go with the match.

I know buying a puppy, especially at $2500 is scary. But, keep in mind that there are no guarantees, and just because one terrible thing happened doesn't mean that its going to happen to you.
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Kristen and Napa-doodle, the chocolate doodle!

[KingstonTodd]

two thoughts:

If Aust LD are 15/16ths poodle, does anyone have a feel for the differences between an F1B and the progeny from an F1 x Aust LD. If I were to breed Herhsey (F1), is it worth the $$/effort to breed her to an authentic australian LD, or would i get roughly the same thing from maiting her with a poodle.

Also, the point of the article in Science I posted was that inbreeding was BETTER than unrelated breeding as long as the relationship was further removed than 2nd cousins. I'll think about this for a while (i'll have to draw a family tree), but how close are the genes of 3rd and 4th cousins compared to a grandfather being used to stud a granddaughter.

[Napathedoodle]

All Aus LD are not 15/16th poodle. Since, along with this inbreeding discussion comes genetics, and genetics don't say, on I'm supposed to be 3/4 poodle and 1/4 lab, so I must produce a pup that's got more poodle traits than lab traits. That's why there are still labby puppies that are produced from F1b litters, and why labby puppies are produced from Aus LD litters. It's just the luck of the draw. The ratio of lab to poodle was developed by looking at pedigrees, not at the actual combination of genes....

What to breed her to is what you as a breeder wish to develop, and what you deem as qualities that labradoodles should have. If you want a coat that sheds less, you should probably mate with a curlier Australian LD, or a poodle. If you want other qualities, you choose a mate whose going to promote the good qualities of Hershey, while improving the qualities you wish to improve, whatever those may be- if any.


I think I agree with you, KingstonTodd, to a point. Depending on how distant a 3 or 4th cousin is, I would say its ok, as long as I know what was produced out of the "link" member, meaning the one the two potential mates were out of, and if there has been any troubling developments out of any of the matches. Right now, that might not be fisable, it might never be something we can do, but it's something that SHOULD be done. Because all of this information that we're losing now, is stuff that could be looked at when Science has the information to analyze it.

But, mixing mating a dog that has up to 1/4 of the genes the child has, that, I think, is too much for me. I understand that the 3 or 4th generation could still have the same mix, but I guess in my eyes, there could be the possibility of a few new genes that would benefit my line. But, I would really want the "link" member to be quite a distance back in the pedigree
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Kristen and Napa-doodle, the chocolate doodle!

[MaxandMe]

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UPDATE


NOTE: many breeders on this forum have worked hard with time, love, testing and more wanting to share information in a ongoing discussion bridging breeders and owners together.
Owners want to learn and share as well.

Differing opinions are a way of life , both parties are entitled to their own views but posts that cause more harm than good (via arguing) then these kind of posts are not tolerated.


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Annmarie, Max,& Peanut
Forum BLOG ARTICLE LINK http://blog.labradoodle-dogs.net/

"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France