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Truenarcissist
Junior Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Indianapolis
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 Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: Question for you breeders out there |
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I've done research on Labradoodle studs recently, and I have a question. I'm not really thinking about breeding Guinness, in fact he has a date scheduled to be neutered, but out of curiosity I was asking local breeders in my area what their requirements were.
Everybody said the same thing, they said for their stud services, they would never even consider an F1. So... my question is.. where do the F1b's etc. come from? Do they only use poodle studs with doodle dames to create them? Is it really that unheard of to breed an F1 stud with a standard poodle or another doodle?
Actually, does anybody even breed doodle to doodle? I know with Cockapoos it was known to produce puppies with health problems.
Excuse my poor use of terminology, but I want to know!
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-Lauren and Guinness (F1)- |
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MaxandMe
Site Admin
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 11688
Location: Upstate, NY
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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okay i sent you a PM on a list of things
and
here's a link i started where many breeders are listing the TESTING they do to determine if they can even breed their dog first
http://labradoodle-dogs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6819
and a F1 is used depending on what you are trying to accomplish.
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Forum BLOG ARTICLE LINK http://blog.labradoodle-dogs.net/
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Last edited by MaxandMe on Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Napathedoodle
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 231
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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You would need to breed an F1 to a poodle mom, which isn't as popular as a poodle dad with F1 mom. And F1 to F1 isn't as popular as F1b to F1b because there's a bigger possibility of breeding a pure lab and a pure poodle from the F1-F1 cross. The F1b-F1b shows a smaller variance between the coat types. But, obviously none of that is guaranteed. But, breeders have different ideas. It just depends on what they're trying to achieve.
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Kristen and Napa-doodle, the chocolate doodle! |
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Lucky Me
Senior Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 795
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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So, if you have an F1B doodle, that has a wooley poodle coat, could it also be used on F1's ?(providing it passes all the other requirements)
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Judi,Tuesday& Marley(and little Reba too!)
"Happiness is a warm puppy with wet kisses" |
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Doodlesville
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1903
Location: VA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Napathedoodle"]You would need to breed an F1 to a poodle mom, which isn't as popular as a poodle dad with F1 mom. quote]
Huh? why do you say that isnt as popular as poodle dad
it makes NO difference if mom is the poodle or not, its all in how the genes fall in every single litter which will vary
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Nancy at Doodlesville(Virginia)
www.Doodlesville.net
Aussiedoodles, Goldendoodles &
F1/F1B Labradoodles,
Breeding only Early Generation Doodles!
Keeping the Original Goals for this breed First!!
We do NOT Breed Australian Labradoodles!! |
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Napathedoodle
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 231
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Nancy,
I didn't say there was anything wrong with crossing a F1 dad with a poodle mom. But, if you look at the breeder websites, the cross you typically see is the other way. I doesn't matter to me which way the cross is, but typically you find the F1 mom and Poodle Dad.
If I had wanted to comment on genes, I would have used another word other than popular. But you're right, it makes no different gene wise which parent is what. But I was commenting in response to her breeder contacts who discredited her F1 male, explaining why they might have done that.
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Kristen and Napa-doodle, the chocolate doodle! |
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NurseLeslie
Senior Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 399
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know anything about the subject, just wanted to comment that the puppy on Nancys avatar is possibley the cutest thing I have ever seen....Is he up for grabs?
Leslie |
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Doodlesville
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1903
Location: VA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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 Thanks Leslie, that is a blue merle Aussiedoodle , he is already sold, but we have litters coming this summer ,,I love the aussiedoodles they are really becoming my fav's 
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Nancy at Doodlesville(Virginia)
www.Doodlesville.net
Aussiedoodles, Goldendoodles &
F1/F1B Labradoodles,
Breeding only Early Generation Doodles!
Keeping the Original Goals for this breed First!!
We do NOT Breed Australian Labradoodles!! |
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Maureen
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1957
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Question for you breeders out there |
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| Truenarcissist wrote: |
Everybody said the same thing, they said for their stud services, they would never even consider an F1. So... my question is.. where do the F1b's etc. come from? Do they only use poodle studs with doodle dames to create them? Is it really that unheard of to breed an F1 stud with a standard poodle or another doodle?
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You are definitely on the right track that F1b's do come from a doodle bred to a poodle, of course!
The fact is that most breeders seem to have started from Lab breeding, and then got a Poodle male, and I have heard some say that there's a difference but frankly, as Nancy has alluded to, that is really ignorance disguised as something else.
There are breeders like me (and Nancy?) who have poodle females or doodle males but my experience is that there don't seem to be all that many. I had to look A LOT to find an f1 male when I wanted to breed my Std. Poodle female. But maybe it would be easier now, I don't know.
Nancy do you have poodle females?
So you would be correct that it's not about a right/wrong but a matter of what is more common, I think.
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~Maureen
LabradoodleRanch@aol.com
www.LabradoodleRanch.com |
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Jac
Site Admin
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 6582
Location: Northern CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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I would say that it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish with your breeding. If you have great health and temperament with F1s and if you have either two nice coats, or one flat coat and one curly coat, then breeding F1 to F1 gets you an F2 which is not bad!
In fact, I searched high and low for a small enough F1 to breed to my moyen Poodle. I think that I have found one and I am thrilled!
If I had a female Poodle, I would be very interested in a great F1 Labradoodle or Goldendoodle.
I really think that people believe that because so many buyers want multigen dogs that early generations are not wanted...not so! I believe that the early generations are the best! In fact, I have no desire to go much beyond F1B...unless it is to breed two F1Bs.
I find that the early generations generally have better health and they are certainly adorable in temperament...so are multigens though.
Sorry...long winded way of saying NO WAY! F1s are still in demand!!
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jacque.bayley.lexie.chase.rosie.nitos.amelia.dupree.madison.sherwood.gerry www.backporchlabradoodles-jacque.blogspot.com www.backporchlabradoodles.com |
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Tink
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Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 2227
Location: West central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder with the f1's if the reason it's most common to find a lab dam and a poodle stud isn't because there are so MANY labs to choose from, that's it's easier to locate numerous lab females and a single nice poodle stud. In my area at least, there are MANY lab breeders, but I only know a couple of poodle breeders. So since one male can service several females... this is just how the numbers have fallen?
Just an observation... based on my own experience and locale.
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Hickory, Ava, Hana, Misty, and Chip (happy master of his Harem) |
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Maureen
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1957
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Tink wrote: | I wonder with the f1's if the reason it's most common to find a lab dam and a poodle stud isn't because there are so MANY labs to choose from, that's it's easier to locate numerous lab females and a single nice poodle stud. In my area at least, there are MANY lab breeders, but I only know a couple of poodle breeders. So since one male can service several females... this is just how the numbers have fallen?
Just an observation... based on my own experience and locale. |
yeah, Tink, that's what I was trying to say. As far as the early generations I think that's the basis of it all. Now, when you are breeding one of your f1's, and you need an unrelated male, it's all up to you which gender doodle you keep and which gender of Poodle you need for F1b's.
I'm an oddity as far as I can tell, or at least unusual, in that I bought my 1st Standard poodle with the intention of breeding her - in 2001, before I heard of Labradoodles. But when we already loved Labs it was a natural bridging of loving 2 breeds equally. So I listened and interviewed Poodle breeders aTON before buying our first Poodle, and I'm thankful for all I learned before I heard of Doodles. The others I have met with Poodle females are or used to be Poodle breeders.
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LabradoodleRanch@aol.com
www.LabradoodleRanch.com |
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Jac
Site Admin
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 6582
Location: Northern CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Really good point, Tink. I agree. It is very difficult to find a Poodle that you are allowed to mate with a different breed.
Our girls are the product of a Poodle mother and Lab father.
The great thing about F1s is that you can breed them to any generation...or back to a Poodle.
I would only be concerned about size...trying to match both dogs as closely as possible.
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jacque.bayley.lexie.chase.rosie.nitos.amelia.dupree.madison.sherwood.gerry www.backporchlabradoodles-jacque.blogspot.com www.backporchlabradoodles.com |
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Doodlesville
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1903
Location: VA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Maureen, I prefer Poodle Females!
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Nancy at Doodlesville(Virginia)
www.Doodlesville.net
Aussiedoodles, Goldendoodles &
F1/F1B Labradoodles,
Breeding only Early Generation Doodles!
Keeping the Original Goals for this breed First!!
We do NOT Breed Australian Labradoodles!! |
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Maureen
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1957
Location: Colorado
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