Two crates?

momoftwo · Senior Member Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 265

We also went with two crates - one for downstairs and one in the bedroom. It worked great for us. At a year old Dante is no longer crated at night but we do gate him in the bedroom so we are aware of where he is at. (My DD got in to a bad habit of walking up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom. When Dante went to investigate she would stay up and play with him - not a habit I wanted to get started). The X-pen did not work for us at all. He climbed out of it from day one at 8 weeks old.

Heather

lindamarie · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:14 am Post subject:

Crate training vs leaving a dog unsupervised

I'm getting confused. If a dog/pup is in a create or multiple crates, they are supervised and they are in their own space and out of harms way, right?
Anyone who would leave a pup to roam free would be insane! The problems and life threatening situations are obvious.......not to mention destruction to the owners furniture etc.

My Springer slept in bed with us for 11 years. He never fell off........he did once as he got older hurt is hip jumping off. My weimeraner wouldn't even consider a bed.........lol..........
Also, yes, a dog MUST be house broken before entering a bed, no doubt!

Nancy, I'm still confused as to how this hurts us or the dog. Alpha dogs lie with other dogs in the pack, right? If we, assume the alpha position, how does sleeping together hurt?
We're training a new puppy here and I want to get as much info as possible, so I'm open. But so far, I'm just confused................could you be specific in how this could lead to bad things down the line?
Thanks
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Linda & Bogart
Dogs=Unconditional love
"We have it all! Just like Bogie & Bacall!"

BAD · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:18 am Post subject:

Abbey is crate trained and we love it. We have the crate in the bedroom at night and during the day it is in the kitchen. Abbey is confined in the kitchen with a gate and has access to her crate. We also use the crate in the car.

We picked up two large dog, soft sided, portable crates at Tuesday Morning. They are made by Dog Gear. Here is a link to a similar Dog Gear crate http://www.petgearinc.com/Deluxe.htm. The large one we have is meant as a portable crate for a large dog, but Abbey is a mini so we use them as play pens because the top zips open. They also fold up so we can take one with us if necessary. We have one in our office and den. Abbey has adjusted well to all the pens and crate.

We are retired so we are around the house more than working folks. And this system has worked well for us. Abbey is four months old now and she is gradually earning more freedom. Often in the office and den now we open the pen and she gets her toys out of it and rests in it if she wants. I'm thinking of replacing her crate (which she will soon out grow) with one of the pens in the bedroom. She can either be confined in it or you can open the front and use it like an open crate. I'll get a wire crate for car travel, etc. When we go out she stays in her crate without protest.

Abbey also gets lots of exercise so she is pretty relaxed around the house. Abbey is part of our family and we look forward to the time we can leave her unattended in the house and yard. But for now this system works great for us.
_________________
Barbara & Abbey

http://picasaweb.google.com/byby925/AbbeyD

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCrIowTsUik

Paintsmeblue · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject:

I can understand the problem with alpha's and pack leaders if we were talking about a very dominant breed (rotts, german shepards, pit bulls, etc. All very nice breeds with the right training and leadership.). But we're talking about Labradoodles. I know that one or two alpha's are born per litter, but in general, labradoodles are submissive. So, I do understand your past experiences, but different dogs require different measures.

It's the same complaint I have with Ceasar Milian. I LOVE his show, and I think he works wonders with the out of control dogs. But, I wouldn't call Napa an out of control dog. He doesn't really offer any training advice for prevention- other than exercise, and energy.

I've been trying to use Caesar Milian's techniques with Napa, and half the time I feel that they're too tough for him, since Napa's SOO submissive. However, it was nice to claim the bed so that now, we control when he jumps up and when he jumps down!

Doodlesville · Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 1817 Location: VA

actually done rite Csears methods are not tough at all, if done properly
The DVDs are really good, gets you in the mind set of how a dog thinks,
his new book is suppose to be awsome, BE the pack leader

it really doesnt matter what breed of dog it is, we all need to be the pack leader ,,
labradoodles are no different despite what we all think they are still dogs Smile

_________________
Nancy at Doodlesville(Virginia)
www.Doodlesville.net
Aussiedoodles, Goldendoodles &
F1/F1B Labradoodles,

Breeding only Early Generation Doodles!
Keeping the Original Goals for this breed First!!
We do NOT Breed Australian Labradoodles!!

Doodlesville · Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 1817 Location: VA

In addition,
using his methods,, if you study him ,,his books his methods, you ARE training,,this gets you to understand how a dog thinks and can use them in the way you interact and train YOUR dog

I am obviously not getting my point across, so i am just going to step away now, i wish i could think of a way to say it so it would be understandable, how you address your pupppy from the beginning determines how your dog will turn out, Confused

_________________
Nancy at Doodlesville(Virginia)
www.Doodlesville.net
Aussiedoodles, Goldendoodles &
F1/F1B Labradoodles,

Breeding only Early Generation Doodles!
Keeping the Original Goals for this breed First!!
We do NOT Breed Australian Labradoodles!!

Lori2147 · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject:

As I said in my previous post, I want to be considerate of others opinions and if Cesar's methods are working for some people, then that's wonderful. It's good for all of us to inform ourselves about different methods of handling our dogs. However, in making those informed choices, it's good to know that a number of sources have expressed serious concern over Cesar Millan's methods. Considering the sources, I'm reluctant to believe their concerns are expressed due to jealousy.

Those that have expressed concern include:

Jean Donaldson, Director of The SF/SPCA Academy for Dog Trainers

Andrew Luescher, DVM, Veterinary Behaviorist, Animal Behavior Clinic, Purdue University.
Here's a quote from Luescher:

"Most of the theoretical explanations that Millan gives regarding causes of the behavior problems are wrong. Not one of these dogs had any issue with dominance. Not one of these dogs wanted to control their owners. What he was right about was that calmness and consistency are extremely important, but they don't make the presented methods appropriate or justifiable."

Nicholas Dodman, program director for the Animal Behavior Clinic at the Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts University

This is part of the text from an article in the San Francisco Chronicle:
"...Writer Mark Derr, in a recent New York Times editorial, went as far as to call Millan a "charming, one-man wrecking ball directed at 40 years of progress in understanding and shaping dog behavior."
Nicholas Dodman, program director for the Animal Behavior Clinic at the Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts University and author of "Dogs Behaving Badly," goes even further. He calls Millan's techniques "abuse." A TV producer claiming his dog was injured while training at the Dog Psychology Center is reportedly suing Millan.
While distaste for Millan might be growing, Dunbar focuses on discounting the myths such training ideas foster. Dogs aren't wolves, Dunbar says, generations of evolution separate the two animals. "Learning from wolves to interact with pet dogs makes about as much sense as, 'I want to improve my parenting -- let's see how the chimps do it!' "

Since the topic of this thread is primarily related to using two crates, perhaps my message is out of place here. I only posted information on Cesar because allowing one's dog to sleep in the owner's bed was being viewed as an attempt by the dog to gain the position of the pack leader. Personally, I just don't think this is the case.

1. I think that if you want to use two crates in your home and that works for you, then by all means, that's what you should do.
2. If you want to let your dog sleep in your bed at night, then you should do so without worrying about alpha dog status.

I agree with Nancy that keeping your dogs crated keeps them out of danger. Puppies can get into all sorts of trouble when unsupervised.

Nancy, please understand I'm not trying to engage in a personal debate with you or criticize your training methods or beliefs. However, in the context of this forum, if one of us is whole-heartedly endorsing a particular method (or training philosophy), then it seems prudent to be willing to examine the pros and cons of that philosophy or method.
_________________
Lori & Baxter

MaxandMe · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject:

which came 1st?

chicken or the egg? cause this really is a stalemate topic as we all having differing opinions.

I say use what works BEST for you Very Happy

_________________
Annmarie, Max,& Peanut
Forum BLOG ARTICLE LINK http://blog.labradoodle-dogs.net/

"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France

Doodlesville · Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 1817 Location: VA

Quote
Nancy, please understand I'm not trying to engage in a personal debate

I have no desire to debate anyone i know what has worked for me for over 30yrs , what i have done that causes problems ,just tryin to help others avoid the problems beginning,
_________________
Nancy at Doodlesville(Virginia)
www.Doodlesville.net
Aussiedoodles, Goldendoodles &
F1/F1B Labradoodles,

Breeding only Early Generation Doodles!
Keeping the Original Goals for this breed First!!
We do NOT Breed Australian Labradoodles!!

blueteal · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject:

I guess we will agree to disagree on this topic
so......................................

HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE
_________________
Sue & Denver
http://blueteal.net/denver.htm
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
- Josh Billings

Lori2147 · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject:

I'll second that...

Happy Holidays to You and Yours

_________________
Lori & Baxter

BAD · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject:

Lori, That picture is darling. What a couple of cuties. Happy Holidays to all.
_________________
Barbara & Abbey

http://picasaweb.google.com/byby925/AbbeyD

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCrIowTsUik

Lori2147 · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject:

River Rat · Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:10 am Post subject:

I didn't read to the end of this thread before I posted this, to see that people were closing discussion on the Cesar Millan subject, so I'm sorry! But since I spent the time writing this I'll leave it anyway, since it also addresses the crating issue!

MaxandMe · Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject:

LORI....i love your avitar for now hahaa so cute!! and original too
CONGRATS and will be awaiting REAL puppy pics soon!

CRATE or NOT Crate...i think it's a personal preference
Milan or non-milan method? once again personal preference

I never in my life crated dogs till i had doodles, all 3 are crated if we all leave the house.
NOW Max and Peanut do not need crating at night but Beau does or he'll de-seam all wool throw rugs and more cuase he's a curious lil devil right now.

OH i am going to post a link here later on and give you all a good laugh regarding CRATES hahahhahahaaaa uploading pics at the moment hahaha
_________________
Annmarie, Max,& Peanut
Forum BLOG ARTICLE LINK http://blog.labradoodle-dogs.net/

"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France