Training Issues and Methods..What to do?

[mtd885]

This time of year a lot of cute pupples will be turning up under the Ole Xmas Tree. For the past year I have participated in many 'training issue' threads and shared my experience. I, like Paul Owens used to use 'force' training methods with much success. Now like Paul Owens I do not use force. I will also admit that a year ago when Abby came to us I had no idea who Paul Owens was. I did my due diligence and found out. Along with Karen Pryor's book DON'T SHOOT THE DOG I have found a new path. Is there one method to train a dog...NO! However after studying the work of these two individuals I can heartily recommend them to anyone needing training advice. I can honestly say that today I AM a better human being having absorbed and experienced first hand the effects of this method. Here's some Publicity stuff....BTW I am not affiliated in any way shape or form to Paul Owens or Karen Pryor
HERE ARE FREE TRAINING TIPS!!!!!...http://www.dogwhispererdvd.com/dog_trai ... tials.html
HERE ARE PAY PER VIEW TRAINING SESSIONS!!!!! http://www.dogwhispererdvd.com/dog_training_clips.html

Owens on Milan: http://www.dogwhispererdvd.com/faq-dog_whisperer.html

Reference Material and Articles: New York Times Dog Time Media American Humane
Society SF-SPCA San Francisco Chronicle DogWorks Article Archive
The Original Dog Whisperer
By Andy St ernber g
Five years before Nat i onal Ge ogr aphi c 's "Dog Whisperer" became a worldwide hit, Paul Owens
had released a DVD and book, with service-mark, yet an entirely different approach. Andy Sternberg
of Radio News met with Owens to discuss the bastardization of the art of "dog whispering."
“The original meaning of the term “Dog Whisperer” was treating any kind of animal with kindness,
respect -- in other words without physically forcing them to do anything,” according to Paul Owens, the
dog trainer who coined the phrase “Dog Whisperer” when he published The Dog Whisperer book in
the 1990’s. (the Original Definition is literally patterned after “Horse Whisperer”).
The more famous dog whisperer, National Geographic television’s Cesar Millan, displays a
training philosophy that is much more aggressive and warlike than Owens’s. And according to
national press, Mr. Milan has no formal training at all.
Millan’s methodology assumes that dogs are more apt to follow the leadership and energy of an
aggressive owner as opposed to a passive one, according to Owens
But Owens takes a more zen-like, Gandhian approach. When you train your dog, you’re actually
training yourself to be a better human being, he says.
“Basically this whole program is about teaching people how to raise and train their dogs using non-
violent methods.”
In describing this humane point of view, Owens launched: “We call it the nine methods: food and play
and socialize; quiet time and exercise; give your dog a job to do; lots of rest when days are through; train
with love respect and care; and see your vet throughout the year.”
Owens hesitates to describe what he calls Cesar Millan’s bastardization of his dog whispering
concept, after all he contends, positive training continues to reap major benefits:
? “Everytime he (Cesar Millan) is on the news or on a program like Oprah or something else,
our book sales and DVD sales go up, so inadvertently he’s introduced a lot of people to
positive training,” states Owens.
“Apparently, this original, positive training method, isn’t cut out for prime time
television!” Annenberg Radio News

[TNVOL]

I agree mtd. I read the Puppy Whisperer before getting Vegas and it is definitely my favorite. I also read both of Cesar's books and Patricia McConnell, The Other End of the Leash. I liked Owen's methods the best and employ them the most. I do pick up some information from Ceasr, but I do not for the most part, agree with his "touch".

[Doodlesville]

So glad your are happy with him
However ,,You are misinformed, about Cesar ,, maybe Mr Owens is just looking to sell books,
I know i have never heard of this person,
In my experience in Cesar;s training methods have not experienced anything he describes, fear is a great way to get books sold i suppose
I do know that i use several different methods depending on the dog, but i do seem to come back to Cesar More often then not, it works!!! these are dogs not people!! i cant stress that enough!!

My Opinion ,, training ,, you use what works, there is enough room in this world for several different methods, considering that all dogs are different
and Mr Owens just lost alot of my respect by trying to discredit another awesome trainer

[mtd885]

Glad we agree Nancy! There are many succesful methods

[Lucee&Rusty]

We have read heaps of books before and after our pups arrived. I personally like "The Other End of the Leash" "Monks of Skete"
Paul Owens "Dog Whisperer"
I think the key here is to read and research as much as possible and follow what you feel comfortable with.
You know your dog better than anyone else. I have read Cesar's books but I wasn't comfortable with some of his ideas.
Lucee seems to just want to please you. I have never had to use a check chain on her.
She is now in the final stages of her dog obedience training in off lead work and is the youngest in the class.
We have used the same methods with Rusty with the same success.

[MaxandMe]

as each child is different so is each dog thus i say " whatever makes your boat float"
so what works for one may not work for others.

I've read some books but i'd say for me the Vollhard Positive Reinforcement Method has worked best to-date w/some common sense
w/Max Peanut and Beau ...oh don't forget having a sense of humor on hand helps too.

NOW while my doodles are FAR from being very well trained such as therapy/assistance dogs etc
I will say my doodles are pretty much well mannered and listen well for me BUT they do need training year round and not just in a class.
I also think many doodles aren't mature till age 3years old from mine, others in area and from what forum members relay.

now the 30min lie downs , act confident and not OVERLY lavishing praise while training , saying it ONCE and wait for dog to respond
rather than saying it 4 or more times till they do it-----i see that in Ceaser, Vollhard, and others. AND it does work for my doodles.

Biggest thing for me? Peanut needs a Soft Voice for training , like "no-non honey, Good Girl "and we get a tremendous response from her.
It's like teaching a 2 to 3yr old kid.....kind gentle training goes a LONG way with her and just a bit of happy praise. Peanut(GD)is
very sensitive to your voice and body language (like golden retriver)...wheres Max who does love to please can give the "whhuutt" look at times

BOTH DOODLES.....maybe most doodles? aren't hard to train, but they learn quicker, better w/ POSITIVENESS and i have found a Gentler training
sometimes without treats too goes a LONG way with these dogs.

[mtd885]

Very well said AM If you humans don't mind me voting for my favorite...
I watch her on TV all the time. She gives yummy treats...Abby Doodle Dandy CGC ]

[Jac]

Cute pics of Abby watching television!

I agree that each dog has their own "button" for learning...as many dogs as I own, I can say that each one responds differently than the other. Some need me to be more firm and some need me to be gentle...and some need both and it is up to me to figure it out.

I believe it is important to learn to communicate with your dog. Every dog has a different level of communicaiton.

I hope you don't mind me sharing our latest little story about Doodles adjusting to their circumstances and learning how to communicate...this weekend I placed one of my 5 month old pups with an 18 year old autistic girl. I spent the better part of the afternoon with them because I didn't know how my pup would react and transistion..

This girl behaves much like a 3 year old, but she is partially deaf so she speaks loudly; she has very limited vocabulary; she has a physical problem with her breathing so she makes loud and unusual sounds...I was a bit concerned that my pup, not being exposed to this would be afraid, at the very least...and for about 30 minutes he was. But we gave the girl some treats to feed the pup and, long story short, the pup follows her everywhere now and comes to her when she "shouts" his name....and he watches cartoons with her, sleeps with her...is very loving to her.

Now, she didn't know how to train this pup...and the pup had not been socialized around her particular circumstances but this pup knew, by instinct, that this girl was not going to harm him and I think that he also knew that she was trying her best to communicate...

Bottom line, no particular method was used...or needed. These dogs are very smart, very intuitive and want, so much, to please.

Obviously this pup does need traiing...but to see the communicaiton happen so quickly with this special girl really renews my belief that our Doodles are extremely sensitive and intelligent creatures and, my point, is to agree with the discussion about each dog learning and growing independently and the need for the owners to be flexible and try to understand what that particular dog responds to, rather than to have a set method of training, responses and expectations.

I agree training is important. I just found out the other day just how far training has worked with Maya. Maya is 1.5 years old and to date would run the minute she was outside if not on a leash. We have noticed that she has mellowed a little so this weekend when we were putting up Christmas lights we decided to let her out front with us with no leash. I figured she would run and we would have to put her back in the house in under 5 minutes. An hour later we all were still outside and she was laying in the same spot I had put her in when we started with the lights. She got up a few times but I just said uh-uh and she went right back down. And yesterday I let her in the back yard and we opened the gate to bring in the dining room table we just bought and she followed us to the front (when my BF called her) and stayed with us the whole time. She didn't even try to run. I was so proud of her!!!! I never trained her specifically to do this. She just kinda picked it up by the other training we worked on.

[mtd885]

That's great Heather! She's growing up, just like Abby I think you'll notice her even calmer once you get her diet adjusted.
Jac! It was with the same wonderment that I watched Abby interact at the special needs school we visited. She's still intimidated by some folks but has NEVER shied away from anybody with special needs. She tolerates walkers and wheelchairs yet when a nice/but gruff individual got on the elevator with his shopping cart making a lot of noise and launching the thing into the air just above her head (she was smart enough to duck ) I said nothing! Needless to say when he went to pet her she did shy away. As you say it's pure instinct. Not every dog has it and you can't teach it as well. Which pup did you place? Was it the little guy who couldn't decide what kind of coat he wanted to wear ? He's a very soulful guy!

[Jac]

Yes, Michael, it was that pup! He has always been a favorite of mine. He was the pup who came to me every time I was with them, so that he could climb onto my lap for love. I knew immediately which pup would be right for this girl when I heard that she needed to connect...tactile enrichment...and it was so heartwarming to watch her awkwardly reach out to him and he would let her pet him. Then, to watch him gently nibble the treat out of her hand when she offered it but didn't let go!

Abby is so cute! I can just imatine the scene in the elevator! hahahaha

[PlainJane]

These stories are heart warming.......... just makes ya smile ! Great job everyone.