Wow mom, RAW!!

Maya and Sadie have been on RAW for about a month. We had a lot of problems with runny poo until MTD pointed out that I may be feeding too much. Maya is 55lbs and Sadie is 35lbs. I was feeding Maya 2 lbs of chicken and Sadie was getting 1.7lbs. I was also feeding enhanced chicken which didn't help (I can only get meat at the grocery store. There aren't a lot of butchers around here. I just found one 40 minutes away and I need to go check them out.) Right now they are eating chicken leg quarters and they just get one quarter a day. We have been experimenting with once a day feeding. So far it has been working out. My and Say get one leg quater in the am and they may get a snack at "dinner". (Depends on what we are making for dinner). Right now I am spending less then I was on kibble. I was paying about $100 for kibble and canned and the chicken I am feeding them is $1 per pound and I wouls need about 60 lbs a month for both dogs. Even when I start adding in other meats I am going to try to keep everything at $1 per pound. If there is a sale I stock up.

As far as sanitary concerns and fighting. I watch my girls during feeding time, that way I am there if anything should happen. Sadie always finishes first and then will sniff around Maya. Maya has started to give a short low growl and Sadie has been staying away in recent days. I feed them in the same bowls and I have a mat under the bowls. My dogs lick up any "scraps" they might drop and lick the floor where those scraps were so they keep it pretty clean. I do try to wipe the bowls out with a chlorox wipe after they finish. I don't usually wipe muzzles as they do a good job cleaning them.

After switching to 1lb a day they are doing good and we are going to slowly start adding in organ meat next week.

As far as veggies go....all the reading I have done and research I will give fruits and veggies as a snack only. from what I read the only way the dogs will get any nutrional value from fruits and veggies is if they are put through a food proccessor. I just don't want to do that se we are going with the prey model here too (80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ (5% of organ should be liver)).

As far as the dogs health I haven't really seen too many changes yet. Maya's breath is a little better. Sadie's is not. Neither dog had bad tarter so that isn't an issue. They are just as happy and healthy as they were on kibble in my opinion. They don't mind the once a day feeding (I love once a day feeding). They are maintaining their weight (Maya even gained back the few pounds she was down when she was sick).

I got a lot of info from MTD here on this forum (MTD I will be pm'ing you in a few weeks for what to feed next and what cuts of beef to get...once we are ready to move on). I also got a lot from www.dogster.com (they have a RAW feeding forum with so many tips and help). I didn't like the yahoo groups but that was me. I also read the books by Ian Billinghurst and Dr. Pitcarin.

Good luck with your decision Jac. I really do feel a lot better about feeding RAW as I now have control of what goes into my dogs dish!!!

QUESTION FOR THOSE ADDING ACV TO THE MEALS....how much do you add and how many times? Is it daily?

[mtd885]

QUESTION FOR THOSE ADDING ACV TO THE MEALS....how much do you add and how many times? Is it daily?

We give Abby 1/4 cup yogurt with a teaspoon of ACV daily. Sometimes I wipe her paws with ACV after a meal too! Giving probiotics (cultures in yogurt) is supposedly helpful in maintaining digestive balance. It seems to help with fewer epsiodes of room clearing SBD's. Hmmmm Makes me wonder if someone (creative breeder) might have stuck a Boxer in the woodpile as Doodles are notorious for gas!
Heather when you start Organ's next week try giving them small pieces of FROZEN LIVER. A lot of dogs refuse room temp because of texture. Another way to do it is bake the liver slices overnight @175 degrees until dry (or use dehydrator if you have one). Measure out 2-3 oz's and feed it as rewards/treats during the day for good behavior. Don't forget the fish weekly! One 14 oz can of Salmon or Mackerel with a little grated parmesan and a raw egg and they are in heaven and getting a good dose of Omega3. I'm glad to hear that you are seeing positive changes based on this diet. I for one had a lot of issues with it before I tried it. Basically I had to re learn dog biology and nutrition. When I went to do research, all the research was done by pet food companies That was a big hint for me to find a better way to care for my companions and I believe this is it.

Yeah we haven't been able to move off chicken yet. However, I have been supplementing with missing link which is really high in Omega 3 so we are good there. I also got some canned sardines and I plan on giving those as snacks.

[Jac]

This is all very interesting and helpful.
Hmmm, I didn't realize that it is wise to start the dogs out on a limited diet...so chicken is the first? Then add organ meats?
Okay, I'll check the links you provided and try to get the books mentioned.
I only have one dog with tartar problems, I am anxious to see how that is changed, if at all.
SBDs...well, now that would be great to avoid, but sounds like you still have that problem on this diet. *sigh*
My biggest motiviation??? Little poops!!! Less stinky poops!!! Yesssss!
Michael, you saw our set up...we just feed the dogs in the barn...and, since Dave sleeps there, he is worried about bacteria. I think we just need to get crates for them all (which I have been wanting since we moved here anyway) and then feed them in their crates. Dave's biggest worry is the bacteria in their crates...it isn't easy to clean and sanitize in the barn yet...I hope that we can get that fixed this summer...but until we do, we need to consider this too. Since Dave stays there more than I do, his health is a concern...that's why I asked about the clean up...I can deal with wiping down paws and faces and even crates...so I guess it is just a matter of retrianing them in the way they eat...in their crates, alone...and the bone could be given during rest time in the evening or afternoon.
This might work...so glad we don't need veggies...but, my dogs do love to eat grass...and leaves! (And sticks and ... oh, my...)

[mtd885]

Dave could put down a feeding floor. A piece of flooring like lineoleum that you could hose down with a 1% bleach solution after feeding then stand up along the wall when not in use. Abby eats on a large towel which I pick up and wash after the meal. Each dog could have his or her own towel to eat off of. That will increase your laundry duties tho I'll ask for advice on my raw feeding newsgroup.

[gene]

Jac.....I just put the food right in their dish. Rumor eats his right there, Miko will occasionally put it on the floor of her crate, same as Jonah with the kitchen floor. Trust me, after the three clean up after each other......there's nothing left but a spotless floor and crate!

[Calimom]

Jac, does your barn have a concrete floor with a drain? You could sanitize it either with a bleach solution or apple cider solution (natural disinfectant) and then hose it down. Not so fun in the cold winter weather, I admit. If fed in a crate set up, I would just get a bucket of water with some cider vinegar added and just mop them out and let them air dry.

Fortunately Cali has never had much problem with gas, a little while on kibble and now essentially none now that she's on raw. Maybe, like people it's an individual thing.

[Jac]

Meg...love your new avatar!

Thanks for all of the ideas! I like the feeding mat idea. When my dogs eat canned or kibble, they eat from their dishes, but if they were to get a bone or something special that required knawing...they'd take it and run to the nearest corner, nook or cubby they could find.

I think that with us, we will have to feed in the crate...and make sure that they have their bones in the crate too.

Our barn floor is concrete, but no drain yet...well, it can drain out the big door, but that isn't really efficient and, as you said, in winter it can be difficult.

Life is not too simple when you have big family...

Jac...they are easy to train. All I have to say in the morning is who wants breakfast? They go nuts. Then I say what are you supposed to do? Maya lays down and Sadie runs to her crate and sits. They don't approach thier bowls until I say good girls. Sadie isn't bright at all and even she can do this. If you feed them in crates I think that would be easiest. Lock them all up and them one by one open a crate and toss in some food. Nobody gets out until all are done. Oh BTW look on craigslist for crates. I got a large size crate with 2 doors and a tray for $50.

Oh and it is best not to mix different kinds of meat to fast esp if you have any sensitive tummies. Maya is very sensitive so we have to go really slow.

[Jac]

Thanks, Heather! That is pretty much the way I picture it...I think it will work and thanks for the idea for crates too! I can use a good price....