Silver + chocolate + new Question

[SilverLoka]

Hi guys!

I'm new to this forum and I'm from Sweden so try not to notice spelling and stuff

I have a silver F1 girl that is (hopefully) having her first litter of doodle puppies, the father is a chocolate F1. She is on week 3 + 2 now so it's still early.

I was just wondering what colours you think I can expect. The grandparents are silver poodle and black labrador on both sides.

I've been trying to google but now after 3 whole days of genetics reading I gave up *lol*

My bets are that there will be silver and maybe black but then the fathers chocolate confused me cause maybe there's a chance of chocolate, cafe, parchment or lavender puppies?

What colours do the parents have to have to get cafe, parchment and lavender?

Maybe someone have some good links to some breeders that made this combination before.

Thanks a million!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________
A new question: (maybe you want it in a new thread?)

Hi again guys!

I have seen some pregnacy spottings (don't know the english name), the eggwhite type, and I've noticed that they where getting thicker each time I saw one. And the last one I saw (yesterday) where kinda green/yellow in tone but veeery very lightley colored.
I cheked with real eggwhite and that can also be alittle yellow in tone, but is that a normal color in the dogs spottings?

What are your experiences?

It doesn't smell anything BTW

Thanks

[KingstonTodd]

Welcome to the forum.

Without a colour genetic test you do not know if your silver is BB (Black and Black at each chomosomes) or Bb (Black at one and brown at the other). Black is dominant and covers up brown, so if she is BB, no brown puppies. If she is Bb, you will get 50% brown when bred to a chocolate lab (bb). Her parents are both Black genetically but you dont know if they carry brown (again BB or Bb). Were there any brown littermates to your girl? This would tell you if the parents carry brown, and then if there is a possibility that your girl does.

On to lightening of colour. Your black that has faded to silver means most of the black puppies will also fade to some degree, and if you get chocolate they will likely fade as well. There are 3 poodle genes that lead to fading or a lighter coat, and silver is one of them. To get cafe, lavender and parchment it is better to start with a brown so there will be no black to mask it, or cream carrying brown and not black. I have a brown F1 that bred to a brown poodle has lead to these nice faded coats. For example you could breed a brown to a champange with brown points (an apricot that has faded to almost white, carry brown and not black) and then you will get brown puppies that will fade.

I am trying to get a brown to stay brown.

Do you have a website I could look at?

[Jac]

Welcome to the forum!

Looks like Todd has covered the genetics completely and since that is his area of expertise, I won't try to add more. But I did want to welcome you. Best wishes on your litter...you might want to read the post about becoming a breeder (even though your pups are "in the oven" you might be able to find good information here.) want-breed-doodles-read-this-t11996.html

[SilverLoka]

Thanks for explaining, I've been reading myself blind haha.

Yeah there was no brown litter mates but maybe she can carry brown anyway? Hopefully.....but ofcourse it will be lovley pupps anyway!

The people that are intrested in puppies are not really fond of silver but they never saw one IRL but everyone we met has allways loved my girls colour, funny....

I'm without a webpage right now but it's in the making I will get back to you when we have something to show you.

Thanks for the link, I've been reading everything about breeding online and I'm just now reading th complete book of dog breeding by Dan Rice.....he writes about the most important things in breeding.
But I have alot of experience with cat breeding (Sacred Birmans) so I'm not totally lost but I never had any puppies so this is new ground for us.

The Labradoodle is becomming popular in Europe as well .

Both the parents are x-rayed and eye tested for PRA, free of both

Thanks for tha warm welcome

[lindamarie]

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!
Although I have no idea on genetics and how any pup will wind up in color, I just wanted to say HELLO and tell you that your spelling and "stuff" is very well done!!

If I may add, my Bogart's mom was an English yellow lab........and his dad was a sort of silvery/beige poodle. He was born picth black and now has tons of silver that someone on here called blue........ ............and in the sunlight has hints of dark chocolate. So ya just never know!
OH! That silver! People think Bogart is an OLD soul. Some have said he's about TEN when he's only TWO!

[Jac]

Linda, that brown in the sunlight is proof that Bogie is Blue!

[SilverLoka]

Thanks lindamarie for the welcome and the compliment!

Yeah I know what you mean....people just see the "gray" and just assume she is old haha

I have been wondering if she is blue or silver cause her back is still dark "blue" and she is over 2 years but maybe doodles change slower than poodles?

I must say that you all have wonderful pics and dogs of course

I think I may have felt a little lump today but who knows could've been a diffrent kind of lump just as easy

[CindynEarl]

Silverloka, I love the pic you have posted here. Really cute. I just wanted to add: (I'm in now way an expert nor a breeder), that my puppy is mostly all black - almost pitch black with a tiny bit of white on his chin and a tiny bit of white on his chest; yet when you look closely, you can see a strand here and there of brown and some white strands here and there - and he came from a daddy whose colors were equally mixed of browns, whites, and tans; and his mother was apricot all over. My pup was dominantly black and so were 90 percent of his siblings. Just thought I'd give my experience. Either way: Doodles are great ---- in ANY color. I will look forward to seeing pics of your pups. It's fun to watch other dogs and pups on this forum.

[SilverLoka]

Thanks CindynEarl You have a really cute pic too!

Yeah of course they are great in all colors, and the exiting part is to see what kind of personalities the have and finding good homes that matches that. THe color is the least important thing but it's still fun to fantasise about the outcome....and the funny thing is that it's to no use but it's kinda addicting

Thanks for your "story", it's funny with genes, they do what ever they want anyway

[SilverLoka]

Hi again guys!

I have seen some pregnacy spottings (don't know the english name), the eggwhite type, and I've noticed that they where getting thicker each time I saw one. And the last one I saw (yesterday) where kinda green/yellow in tone but veeery very lightley colored.
I cheked with real eggwhite and that can also be alittle yellow in tone, but is that a normal color in the dogs spottings?

What are your experiences?

It doesn't smell anything BTW

Thanks

[SilverLoka]

Oh I forgot, do you think there can be a connection with her eating alot of grass latley?

[MaxandMe]

OK without knowing the RECESSIVE GENES and where they lie............genetics has some facts then the roll of the dice
like 2 brown eyed parents having 3 kids with brown eyes and 1 kid with blue eyes.

the blue eyes came from both parents having the recessive gene that when bred together then became a DOMINANT RECESSIVE GENE
overiding the Dominant browncolor gene.

THIS is what happens in dog breeding......what you see is called Phenotype, but what happens is called genotype

I do know my breeder i help her goldendoodles about 70% of them carry the parti factor and she ends up with ones like PEANUT
the light/reddish one inmy avitar picture. Peanut is either a mismark or parti..........another story for another time.

i am getting back into genetics and paid $100 for a book used that costs $250 new on Genetics and genetic coat color etc

BLUES are usually jetblack and even their skin underneath their coat has a bluish HUE and they rarely silver except on the muzzle wehn they age.
IN MAX;s litter most of the litter turned silver MAX was the ONLY BLUE and i love it except at nighttime

why? if you don't turn on a light in middle of night you can trip over him as you can't see him hahhahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[MaxandMe]

I had to come back

sliver and chocolate.....i can't wait to see the end results
and i doo keep thinking of cafe au laut along with a slight possibility of sables or sables that almost look like a brindle but aren't.

I pray one day the companies that do DNA testing will also do COLOR TESTING to tell what the parents are
thus then a end result litter color chart can be produced. at one time one company did color genetics of DOMINANT w/recessive genes

there are many factors that goes into colors as it's where it lies in the gene, it's placement, then we have agouti and so much much more
the pigmentation .....one hair strand can be banded with up to 3 colors thus the reason we see certain colors in genetics a different way
than waht teh genetic chart would say the true color is: an example is brindle, sable, cafe au lait and so on.


OK my dining room is being totally redone by DAVE HONEY and well i have two rooms with tons of stuff mushed in it
i am trying tofind my genetics book to read and hopefully help out

[SilverLoka]

Thanx MaxandMe

I checked her parents pedigrees and I found a whole branch of yellow

Her grandfather was yellow and I also saw that her father have had yellow puppies with a diffrent (yellow) bitch.

Maybe it's not that unlikley that my dog can carry yellow? Or was is it not possible for silvers to carry yellow?

Well I will see the end result in 4 weeks but I'm just so curious haha

She's deffinatley gotten wider around the belly and her nipples are red and much larger than before.....she is also much calmer and demands more attention and cuddles than before.

I felt softly on her tummy just now and it felt hard on both sides so I think there may be alot of small doodles in there

[KingstonTodd]

Are you going to get an ultrasound to check for heartbeats at 30 days? pr wait until 55 to get an x-ray and count skeletons to have anumber to anticipate? Or are you just going to wait and see how many pop out? I got x-rays, not very accurate but it was nice to see them there, a bundle of little sticks.