What makes a "good breeder"?

[KingstonTodd]

For those of you that want to do some good P.R. regarding what makes a responsible breeder there is a discussion started in the debate club at DoodleKisses if you are interested.

[kirama]

I'll pass on that one..the person who started the discussion always has to have the last word..on everything.. But I will throw out my 2 bits worth here:
What makes a good breeder?
Here's what I look for in a breeder:
1. I want a breeder who cares more about the puppies (and the sire and dam) than they do about a profit. It's scary what some breeders will do to save a few bucks.
2. A breeder who raises the pups as part of his/her family and has no more than 2 litters at a time (unless they have another full time adult devoted to helping them)
3. A breeder who understands genetics and the repercussions of trying to breed dogs that carry hereditary disorders, or are disparate in size.
4. A breeder who cares about the puppy after it is placed in the new owners home.
In other words- a breeder like KingstonTodd

[MaxandMe]

WHY NOT HAVE OUR OWN DISCUSSION HERE ABOUT IT?
i don't have time for other forums as right now typing is hard for me and
well i am busy with personal stuff

1. A person who did tons of research, consulting,, POSSIBLY apprenticed with another breeder to learn and
be prepared for start up

2. has Done full DNA testing to rule out much problems on their dam and sire
as well as TESTS HIPS!

3. has also chosen dog for breeding for health (listed in #2) but also for form, structure, tempermaent, learning/training abililty
and intelligence. for me these are the main factors but thre's more i won't list

4. IS WITH the puppies to help socialize, hold them, make sure MOM/dam (aka bitch) is properly tending to puppies
and/or rotating puppies if its a large litter, keeps area clean, doesn't allow visitors unless close family and they take off shoes
wash hands etc to prevent possible carrying in disease.

5. does the worming and other shots on time...weighs puppies at certain intervals.

6. Offers some type of warranty IF and ONLY IF person brings puppy to a vets within several days for clean bill of healthy

7. doesn't let puppies leave litter to go to new homes BEFORE 8 weeks old and if feels a puppy needs a bit more time with litter
keeps that one or two puppies a week or two longer.

8. FULLY screens but also fully answers prospective clients to ensure best fit w/family and puppy and also to ensure puppy is
going to good home.

9. gives prospective new doodle parents quick updates w/a pic...........makes person feel good like they are getting good personal service
and breeder cares both about puppy and person.

10.has instruction list on what to expect in beginning: crying to out in middle of night, possibly might get roundworms which is
totally normal, to INFORM that puppy isn't everywhere till all vaccinations are done at 16wks old, possibly has tiny info sheet
on xpen and/or crate training
NOTE: this #10 might be too much and not deemed necessary but waht does it take to type up a small info/fact/ help sheet???

11. every so often emails doodle parents for pic/update to keep a documented file on coat color, shedding , any health issues heaven forbid,
and also to build PORTFOLIO for future perspective clients as well as ENSURES BREEDING PAIR THAT WHILE TESTED NO PUPPIES END UP
w/HD , kidney etc diseases/problems.

I THINK I LISTED enough for now but there's more to add ........i'll leave that for JAC and others to fill in

[Jac]

How about a breeder who will turn away a willing buyer if the breeder doesn't "feel right" about the home? (Cares more for the pup than the money...I guess same as Lynne says...)
Annmarie makes great points too!

[KingstonTodd]

I would add elbows to the hip testing section. Poodles, granted smaller ones more so than standards, can have elbow issues as much as labradors do with hips and if you are at the vets anyway, the pup is sedated, why not do both?? I would be interested in a general feeling on how many dogs a "good breeder" can have in their home and care for each of the adults individually (apart from the issue of multiple litters at a time, eh, I dont know if we could handle that as well as one at a time). So I guess the use of guardian homes if they have multiple females would be on my list, or the obvious absense of outdoor kennelling/ long periods of isolation even in the house (ie. both adults with full time out of the house jobs).

[Jac]

Yep, Todd, I agree about the elbows. I didn't do that the first time but I do now.

I think it is pretty subjective when you start talking about how many dogs a breeder can care for...I think it depends on so many things.

For instance, if there is one adult at home full time with the dogs, there is a better chance that more dogs can be cared for...also I have known some excellent breeders who use kennels...who take their dogs out of the kennel for hours during the day and only use the kennel to keep them safe at night...so I think it is really wrong to make a blanket statement about that because we just know our own circumstances.

Obviously, there was a time when I thought any more than 5 dogs was HORRIBLE...but now that I have more, I realize that my dogs are very loved, very cared for and very lucky to be living with us. They have a good, clean (relatively) home with plenty of high quality food, yummy treats, 8 acres to play on, dogs and humans to play with...is it perfect? No. Would I do things differently? Sure...but I would argue to kingdom come about my status as a good breeder if someone made the assessment that I was not, based solely on the number of dogs I have.

I really don't like it when people start to decide, based on their own circumstances, what is right for others...so it is a slippery slope...

Puppy mills? Now that is another story! (caged, abused, malnourished, over-bred, not groomed, pathetic conditions...feces, dead dogs ... ugh!) But that can happen if someone has 5 dogs...or one!

[KingstonTodd]

I figured I would get a response about the number of dogs. Believe me Jac, you are on my list of good breeders. And I agree that it is very subjective to the situaiton, space inside and out, and human attention. We are trying to decide if we can handle a third properly. Small house, big yard, dogs have their own bedroom, but would be underfoot in the rest of the house, and our work schedules only overlaps 2 hours on a few days a week, ..........another topic...... But clearly 100 dogs is too many, so is 50, but what about 25? 12? 10? where this trasnition happens depends on so many things there is no real answer so how do you tell if a breeder is "good" with their number or overwhelmed?

[Lucky Me]

I think it was Tink that had 6 max limit? I liked how she said that she took turns , every day a different dog got to stay inside her home and get a lot of attention, with one day dog-free.
I thought that was an option to a dog living it's whole life in a kennel .
I like mine with me, so for me, I would have to buy a bigger house.

[KingstonTodd]

Bigger house? We're discussing a bigger bed to fit them all in at night with us.

[Lucky Me]

They got it okay on the floor......little dog likes her "cave" by the front door. She is the official watchdog of the house!


Although my husband did recently decided that this is now my side of the bed...
He said it is too difficult to navigate at night...
Myself, I can easily picture a 3rd bed here!

We have a spare room right down the hall way that Tuesday has her pups in. I can hear every little peep & Tuesday does not feel abandoned.

[Jac]

Ohmygosh! Our sleeping arrangements are insane! We had an expensive bed...California King...actually two large twins together because they were the kind of beds that had individual controls and the head and feet lift up...memory foam matress...ahhhh, loved it...(notice the past tense?)

Now, Dave and the boy dogs sleep on that...yes, we have crates and dog beds all over the floor...but they seem to prefer steping on Dave's kidneys and nose to position themselves on top of him for the night...he curls up into a ball and they snuggle all night.

Me? I get the girls...only I am not as nice as Dave. I get the Daybed...so there is not much room...I have 2 that MUST sleep with me...they could not survive on the floor, they said. And the rest sort of stake out a place where they can. I go in to get ready for bed, come out and all of my dogs are on the bed...using my pillow! I sternly announce, "Off the bed!" and they jump down...I get positioned to read for a while...they find the nearest empty space and claim it. But...there is no moving them when it is actually time to turn out the light and sleep! Sooooo...I dare not leave the bed or else I have to roll them up into the blankets so that I can find a place.

Hmmmm, maybe we DO have too many dogs...baaad breeder!

[Lucky Me]

Sheesh Jacque! I don't know how you guys do it!!
I allow my 2 up for snuggling, but when it's time for sleeping, out they go!
They get right up to you on either side, and you cannot toss or turn or even get out of the bed!! I feel like a mummy!

[Jac]

EEE-Yup...mummy...that's how I feel...they only last a few hours and most of them jump down. Louie and Madison won't budge the whole night though.

[CurlyTopLabradoodles]

My husband has Hiedi at night, he belongs to her. I have Fritz, he belongs to me. I actually made a doorway into the bedroom next to mine to make more room for the dogs individual crates. The dogs have the crates to keep them and the house safe if no one's home and a cover outdoor kennel that they spend some time in. We vary times outside, we live much too close to our neighbors. I would like to have more dogs in the future, but I'm not adding more while we live in this house. I want land. I want to have my own dog park.

[KingstonTodd]

I understand about the house being a limiting factor. We live in a small 150 year old house, only 1200 sq feet, and with us, our son, and two adult dogs, a litter of puppies, it feels a little crowded. We hope to add one more girl this time but I can't see any more after that until we get a bigger place.