What makes a "good breeder"? - Page 2

Jac · 10-17-2009, 02:04 PM

Janice and Todd, you are in a situation like we were in.

We started out with a very small house in Santa Rosa, a lovely small city in California. Our house was about 1100 sq ft with a small fenced yard. That worked out fine when we had two females and even when we added our male standard Poodle...but we realized that it was not going to work for more dogs. So, BECAUSE OF OUR DOGS, we moved! We found a nice home in the mountains of northen CA, we had 3/4 acre fenced for the dogs...but in 2 years, we outgrew that too!

BECAUSE OF THE DOGS we moved again...found 26 acres! With an old (100 year old) barn and an old house...loved the land....until summer brought fox tails so thick we could not let the dogs out! They were limited to an area much the same size as the first...so, BECAUSE OF THE DOGS we moved again!

We are now in the perfect place...perfect! Dave and I love it, the dogs love it, and each year we fence off another acre for them. We have 8 acres, a seasonal pond, a new (human-liveable) barn, with an elevator! And a house with a 3-car garage...and it is zoned agricultural, so we can have dogs!

I can't believe that we moved so many times, keep in mind that my husband had to find new jobs each time, just to make life easier for the dogs! In the end, our dogs brought us to our perfect home. We wouldn't be here if not for the dogs.

KingstonTodd · 10-17-2009, 04:03 PM

I think we are following in your footsteps Jac, only a few years behind you. We may be moving next summer (for medical school for me) and we will be deciding where to go partly based on where we can get a house with a yard and space for the dogs.

Your new place sounds great, doggy heaven. Just FYI, we think we may fly out and see your pad when it comes time for us to get our party girl from you in a few years. Is that enough notice?

Jac · 10-18-2009, 01:05 AM

Todd! That would be so fabulous!!! We would love to have you visit! I'll look forward to it...and, thanks for the advance notice! LOL

CurlyTopLabradoodles · 10-20-2009, 04:14 AM

Right now I just want to be out of any city limits but still close enough to I-5 so I can be easily found by future dog owners. I don't even care much about what the house would be like. I can change what doesn't work for us. I just want space for my dogs to run freely and play fetch without the ball getting lost over the fence. Most importantly far enough from complaining neighbors. I originally just planned on three dogs, so we got two labradoodle females and a poodle male. Then we rescued our standard poodle mom, Mercedes from a lab breeder. Then I had so many people asking for smaller size dogs, so I decided to keep Emma, then I needed another male for Emma so I got Dutch. Like a snow ball. Then my younger son had a great ideal to have a members only dog park. We used to go to the dog park to excise the dogs. Thought it was safe. Was taught a painful lesson about dog parks. We lost 4 puppies in 10 days to pravo. Now I cringe whenever I hear of someone that doesn't vaccinate their dog. I've even offered to show them how. But people are so unwilling. Better yet unwitting.

SamsonsMom · 10-20-2009, 09:59 AM

As a pet owner, not a breeder - I think what really makes a good breeder is the care that is put into the breeding program, and the care the breeder shows to the new owner. Of course having the testing done on the parents, etc. are key parts. But I've seen puppy broker websites that offer health warranties - say that the breeders have had the parents tested, and the price of the puppy they are selling is certainly just as expensive as a reputable breeders puppy. But if you ask the broker to speak with the breeder, you don't get to. The breeder doesn't screen the potential new owner - nor are they really there for support once the puppy comes home.

My point is - a broker/BYB/puppy mill can possibly fake the testing, give a health 'warranty', raise the price and try and appear like a reputable breeder. But they can't fake the care and attention the reputable breeder gives each parent dog, puppy, and new puppy parents.

Lucky Me · 10-20-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

a broker/BYB/puppy mill can possibly fake the testing, give a health 'warranty', raise the price and try and appear like a reputable breeder. But they can't fake the care and attention the reputable breeder gives each parent dog, puppy, and new puppy parents.

Amen!!!

KingstonTodd · 10-20-2009, 11:35 AM

Oh the fakies. We had a family tell us a horror story this weekend. They are getting a pup from us and their friends wanted one too but contacted us too late, so their friends went and found another breeder via the internet. They had a great website, health testing, REGESTERED with the ALAA, coloured paws, the whole nine yards. They met 1/2 way on the highway to trade money for puppy and did not see their home. 2 days after bringing the pup home.......$1200 in vet bills because it was sick, and the breeder wont return their calls. You really need to meet them in person and see the cleanliness of their operation and GET REFERRALS.

SamsonsMom · 10-20-2009, 11:49 AM

Yeah I came across a terrific looking website. 2 year health warranty - "customer service" ready 24/7 to answer any questions - hefty price tag on all puppies ranging from $1600 - $2200 a puppy plus shipping, and breeders claimed parents were health tested.

Here's the kicker - all you got about the breeder was the state the puppy was coming from. You paid online and the puppy would be shipped within 2 days. You'd receive a confirmation email with flight number, departure and arrival times.

If the only thing you knew about finding a breeder was look for a health warranty and "you get what you pay for" so don't buy a 'cheap' puppy, this website would've passed the test. And by the customer testimonials of their wonderful experience with this site, more than a few people had fallen for the puppy broker false claims.

M&Tdoodles · 10-21-2009, 10:18 AM

What makes us good breeders,

First I cannot believe you have moved so many times, Jac..wow....but I certainly can understand why....having the land for your pups and older dogs to run about "must be like heaven".

WE live on one acre...they are able to run, but nothing like if it were on 4 acres or more....a dream of ours when we are older & retired fom our primary jobs. I can picture us raising healthy labradoodles for many years to come. Its in our blood ...

We live in a secluded neighborhood along the East Coast & being able to run with them along the shore is a plus...Even though there is a "leash Law" No-one ever is at the beach where we live, so they bother virtually No-one..its a beautiful thing. Kelsey will swim along as we walk along the stretch of beach...Kozmo will walk along with us along with Monet & Finnegan...they do not like to swim...
So the dogs will get good exercise and we do not have to want for much right now.

Raising the little guys and seeing them go to their forever homes is so rewarding, expecially when they send emails back to us with pics either with their children or with themselves....Most of our customers lately are Married couples with children whom have waited on getting a dog until their chldren were old enough to appreciate the dog and assist with poop clean up and care of their dog. That is what we love...

..So what makes us good breeders?
We have turned away a few lately due to their work schedules of 9-5 ers....WE could not feel comfortable handing over any of our pups to a person who works 9-5 Mon-Fri. This time around we have turned away 2 prospectives...sigh...( what are they thinking)

The application we added to the web site has helped tremendously ( thanks to Todd ) to weed out the ones we do not feel comfortable with..but to tell the truth, it is a rare occurence. Most who send us the application are wonderful families looking for that perfect dog they have been hearing about , seen for themselves and truly want to raise at home with their family, now that ALL are ready for the love & fun!

Jac · 10-27-2009, 06:23 PM

This is a good discussion...I want to mention that I wrote an e-book that is published on this site...about how to select a good breeder. http://labradoodle-dogs.net/ebooks/Find ... reeder.pdf And, also one for people who want to breed: http://labradoodle-dogs.net/ebooks/Dood ... Basics.pdf

Each of these articles will help a prospective buyer find a good breeder because of the discussions about what to look for and what motivates a breeder.

Most important factor for me is the testing. If a breeder doesn't care enough to conduct extensive genetic health testing, that breeder is not one I'd deal with...no matter how many championships are in the line of breeding stock, no matter how they rave about the quality of their dogs, no matter how much puffery they put into their ad...the proof of commitment to their puppies is in their actions. When they do WHATEVER THEY CAN to ENSURE the best possible health of their puppies, then they prove that they love their puppies...they don't need the puffery when they act responsibly.

Sure, nature throws us curves...that is why the warranty is so important...but if someone really does care about the lives they create, by being a breeder, they will do health testing. Period.

10-17-2009, 02:04 PM	#16 (permalink)
Jac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: northern California Posts: 9,243	Re: What makes a "good breeder"? Janice and Todd, you are in a situation like we were in. We started out with a very small house in Santa Rosa, a lovely small city in California. Our house was about 1100 sq ft with a small fenced yard. That worked out fine when we had two females and even when we added our male standard Poodle...but we realized that it was not going to work for more dogs. So, BECAUSE OF OUR DOGS, we moved! We found a nice home in the mountains of northen CA, we had 3/4 acre fenced for the dogs...but in 2 years, we outgrew that too! BECAUSE OF THE DOGS we moved again...found 26 acres! With an old (100 year old) barn and an old house...loved the land....until summer brought fox tails so thick we could not let the dogs out! They were limited to an area much the same size as the first...so, BECAUSE OF THE DOGS we moved again! We are now in the perfect place...perfect! Dave and I love it, the dogs love it, and each year we fence off another acre for them. We have 8 acres, a seasonal pond, a new (human-liveable) barn, with an elevator! And a house with a 3-car garage...and it is zoned agricultural, so we can have dogs! I can't believe that we moved so many times, keep in mind that my husband had to find new jobs each time, just to make life easier for the dogs! In the end, our dogs brought us to our perfect home. We wouldn't be here if not for the dogs.

10-17-2009, 04:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
KingstonTodd Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,005	Re: What makes a "good breeder"? I think we are following in your footsteps Jac, only a few years behind you. We may be moving next summer (for medical school for me) and we will be deciding where to go partly based on where we can get a house with a yard and space for the dogs. Your new place sounds great, doggy heaven. Just FYI, we think we may fly out and see your pad when it comes time for us to get our party girl from you in a few years. Is that enough notice?

10-18-2009, 01:05 AM	#18 (permalink)
Jac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: northern California Posts: 9,243	Re: What makes a "good breeder"? Todd! That would be so fabulous!!! We would love to have you visit! I'll look forward to it...and, thanks for the advance notice! LOL

10-20-2009, 04:14 AM	#19 (permalink)
CurlyTopLabradoodles Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Vancouver Washington Posts: 7	Re: What makes a "good breeder"? Right now I just want to be out of any city limits but still close enough to I-5 so I can be easily found by future dog owners. I don't even care much about what the house would be like. I can change what doesn't work for us. I just want space for my dogs to run freely and play fetch without the ball getting lost over the fence. Most importantly far enough from complaining neighbors. I originally just planned on three dogs, so we got two labradoodle females and a poodle male. Then we rescued our standard poodle mom, Mercedes from a lab breeder. Then I had so many people asking for smaller size dogs, so I decided to keep Emma, then I needed another male for Emma so I got Dutch. Like a snow ball. Then my younger son had a great ideal to have a members only dog park. We used to go to the dog park to excise the dogs. Thought it was safe. Was taught a painful lesson about dog parks. We lost 4 puppies in 10 days to pravo. Now I cringe whenever I hear of someone that doesn't vaccinate their dog. I've even offered to show them how. But people are so unwilling. Better yet unwitting. __________________ Janice

10-20-2009, 09:59 AM	#20 (permalink)
SamsonsMom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 590	Re: What makes a "good breeder"? As a pet owner, not a breeder - I think what really makes a good breeder is the care that is put into the breeding program, and the care the breeder shows to the new owner. Of course having the testing done on the parents, etc. are key parts. But I've seen puppy broker websites that offer health warranties - say that the breeders have had the parents tested, and the price of the puppy they are selling is certainly just as expensive as a reputable breeders puppy. But if you ask the broker to speak with the breeder, you don't get to. The breeder doesn't screen the potential new owner - nor are they really there for support once the puppy comes home. My point is - a broker/BYB/puppy mill can possibly fake the testing, give a health 'warranty', raise the price and try and appear like a reputable breeder. But they can't fake the care and attention the reputable breeder gives each parent dog, puppy, and new puppy parents. __________________

10-20-2009, 11:35 AM	#22 (permalink)
KingstonTodd Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,005	Re: What makes a "good breeder"? Oh the fakies. We had a family tell us a horror story this weekend. They are getting a pup from us and their friends wanted one too but contacted us too late, so their friends went and found another breeder via the internet. They had a great website, health testing, REGESTERED with the ALAA, coloured paws, the whole nine yards. They met 1/2 way on the highway to trade money for puppy and did not see their home. 2 days after bringing the pup home.......$1200 in vet bills because it was sick, and the breeder wont return their calls. You really need to meet them in person and see the cleanliness of their operation and GET REFERRALS.

10-20-2009, 11:49 AM	#23 (permalink)
SamsonsMom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 590	Re: What makes a "good breeder"? Yeah I came across a terrific looking website. 2 year health warranty - "customer service" ready 24/7 to answer any questions - hefty price tag on all puppies ranging from $1600 - $2200 a puppy plus shipping, and breeders claimed parents were health tested. Here's the kicker - all you got about the breeder was the state the puppy was coming from. You paid online and the puppy would be shipped within 2 days. You'd receive a confirmation email with flight number, departure and arrival times. If the only thing you knew about finding a breeder was look for a health warranty and "you get what you pay for" so don't buy a 'cheap' puppy, this website would've passed the test. And by the customer testimonials of their wonderful experience with this site, more than a few people had fallen for the puppy broker false claims. __________________

10-21-2009, 10:18 AM	#24 (permalink)
M&Tdoodles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 548	Re: What makes a "good breeder"? What makes us good breeders, First I cannot believe you have moved so many times, Jac..wow....but I certainly can understand why....having the land for your pups and older dogs to run about "must be like heaven". WE live on one acre...they are able to run, but nothing like if it were on 4 acres or more....a dream of ours when we are older & retired fom our primary jobs. I can picture us raising healthy labradoodles for many years to come. Its in our blood ... We live in a secluded neighborhood along the East Coast & being able to run with them along the shore is a plus...Even though there is a "leash Law" No-one ever is at the beach where we live, so they bother virtually No-one..its a beautiful thing. Kelsey will swim along as we walk along the stretch of beach...Kozmo will walk along with us along with Monet & Finnegan...they do not like to swim... So the dogs will get good exercise and we do not have to want for much right now. Raising the little guys and seeing them go to their forever homes is so rewarding, expecially when they send emails back to us with pics either with their children or with themselves....Most of our customers lately are Married couples with children whom have waited on getting a dog until their chldren were old enough to appreciate the dog and assist with poop clean up and care of their dog. That is what we love... ..So what makes us good breeders? We have turned away a few lately due to their work schedules of 9-5 ers....WE could not feel comfortable handing over any of our pups to a person who works 9-5 Mon-Fri. This time around we have turned away 2 prospectives...sigh...( what are they thinking) The application we added to the web site has helped tremendously ( thanks to Todd ) to weed out the ones we do not feel comfortable with..but to tell the truth, it is a rare occurence. Most who send us the application are wonderful families looking for that perfect dog they have been hearing about , seen for themselves and truly want to raise at home with their family, now that ALL are ready for the love & fun! __________________ Martha & Tom

10-27-2009, 06:23 PM	#25 (permalink)
Jac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: northern California Posts: 9,243	Re: What makes a "good breeder"? This is a good discussion...I want to mention that I wrote an e-book that is published on this site...about how to select a good breeder. http://labradoodle-dogs.net/ebooks/Find ... reeder.pdf And, also one for people who want to breed: http://labradoodle-dogs.net/ebooks/Dood ... Basics.pdf Each of these articles will help a prospective buyer find a good breeder because of the discussions about what to look for and what motivates a breeder. Most important factor for me is the testing. If a breeder doesn't care enough to conduct extensive genetic health testing, that breeder is not one I'd deal with...no matter how many championships are in the line of breeding stock, no matter how they rave about the quality of their dogs, no matter how much puffery they put into their ad...the proof of commitment to their puppies is in their actions. When they do WHATEVER THEY CAN to ENSURE the best possible health of their puppies, then they prove that they love their puppies...they don't need the puffery when they act responsibly. Sure, nature throws us curves...that is why the warranty is so important...but if someone really does care about the lives they create, by being a breeder, they will do health testing. Period.

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