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Jac · 03-27-2010, 02:16 AM

Honestly, I think that you may be ignoring our advice and doing things your way and not getting good results...this is likely NOT your dog's fault. Puppies are playful, they have sharp teeth and those teeth and nails will cut skin.
I believe that the references to a dog breaking skin is referring to an intentional and aggressive bite and that the only mention of giving a dog away or euthanisa is used as a warning, to get you to try the OTHER GOOD things listed in the articles. Also, they are talking about breeds that are instinctively aggressive or poorly bred. Doodles are gentle dogs, for the most part, and unless the puppy was poorly bred or raised in an abusive situation, he will respond to love and kindness. He will want to please you.
I don't understand, Cindy, why you have to wait for a puppy to have a rabies shot before training classes, but if that is true, you can give rabies shots at 14 weeks. You can give rabies shots with wroming. If a dog is severely affected with parasites, you may want to wait, but it is not the worming meds that cause the problem, it is the weakened immune system.
You must get training...this is not something that will go away until YOU are taught how to handle your dogs...it is not a matter of the dogs being bad, but a matter of the handler not knowing how to handle a dog who has been left to his own devices too long.
I am not saying this to be judgmental...but because I know how easy it can be to let time slip away without classes or training sessions and before you know it you have a much more difficult problem.
Your pups are both young enough that they will respond to training. It doesn't sound like you are able to get the type of advice you need from books or from this forum.
You need to learn how to train.
We have tried to give you advice, but if you don't get training for your pups it will only get worse. Nothing said on this forum will be helpful. The hardest part of training a puppy is taking the time to do it consistently and correctly.
I posted several articles at the beginning of this thread and from all of the good advice given, I am disappointed that what stayed with you was the remark about a dog breaking skin and the last resort options (which I do not agree with)...I posted the articles because I thought that they gave good advice about training and consistency.
Your dog might be ill or have a thyroid problem (if the aggression is really that, aggression) but if your puppy is just playing too roughly and you are getting scratches ...yes, you will bleed. You bleed when you are scratched by a rose bush too...but it just happens, the rose is not to blame.
Please stop looking at your puppies as demonic...they are just puppies.
When a child misbehaves, the parents are usually not in control...the same with puppies...you have to take control of the situation (that does NOT mean that you have to be abusive or controlling, but that you have to be wise, knowledgable and loving) and the only way you can do that is through training.
Please, for the sake of your puppies and the sake of your emotions, take your puppies to puppy kindergarten and then keep taking classes. If you are consistently working with your puppy and you still have problems, talk it over with the trainer or a behaviorist.
If you feel that you can't go to classes, hire a trainer or behaviorist to come to your home.
If you really believe that your puppy is aggressive, then a behaviorist is necessary.
If your puppy is simply being a playful, albeit too rough, puppy then you have to get training to learn how to stop the behavior.
But I will tell you, without a doubt, that muzzles and slapping are NOT the answer. You will only succeed in making your dog fearful and reactionary. Your dog has to feel safe with you. Otherwise he will learn to protect himself...
Frankly, I am quite concerned that you are mentioning the frustration levels, the muzzles and the slapping...the dog's behavior...but are not addressing YOUR behavior or the things you are doing to learn. By saying this I am not talking about walking away or restraining with a leash or muzzle or smacking...but what are YOU doing to LEARN how to work with your puppy? How often are you working with your puppy...alone, not with others around...and are you using positive reinforcement or alpha-roll behaviro? These things are important and without knowing what you are actually doing (on a consistent basis) we really have a tough time trying to help. We want to help...but the best help we can offer, at this point is the advice to get professional training before your puppy gets any older.
Please, take the good advice that has already been given. And if that advice is not enough, then please, get some help for your puppy.

03-27-2010, 02:16 AM	#22 (permalink)
Jac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: northern California Posts: 9,243	Re: Aggression Honestly, I think that you may be ignoring our advice and doing things your way and not getting good results...this is likely NOT your dog's fault. Puppies are playful, they have sharp teeth and those teeth and nails will cut skin. I believe that the references to a dog breaking skin is referring to an intentional and aggressive bite and that the only mention of giving a dog away or euthanisa is used as a warning, to get you to try the OTHER GOOD things listed in the articles. Also, they are talking about breeds that are instinctively aggressive or poorly bred. Doodles are gentle dogs, for the most part, and unless the puppy was poorly bred or raised in an abusive situation, he will respond to love and kindness. He will want to please you. I don't understand, Cindy, why you have to wait for a puppy to have a rabies shot before training classes, but if that is true, you can give rabies shots at 14 weeks. You can give rabies shots with wroming. If a dog is severely affected with parasites, you may want to wait, but it is not the worming meds that cause the problem, it is the weakened immune system. You must get training...this is not something that will go away until YOU are taught how to handle your dogs...it is not a matter of the dogs being bad, but a matter of the handler not knowing how to handle a dog who has been left to his own devices too long. I am not saying this to be judgmental...but because I know how easy it can be to let time slip away without classes or training sessions and before you know it you have a much more difficult problem. Your pups are both young enough that they will respond to training. It doesn't sound like you are able to get the type of advice you need from books or from this forum. You need to learn how to train. We have tried to give you advice, but if you don't get training for your pups it will only get worse. Nothing said on this forum will be helpful. The hardest part of training a puppy is taking the time to do it consistently and correctly. I posted several articles at the beginning of this thread and from all of the good advice given, I am disappointed that what stayed with you was the remark about a dog breaking skin and the last resort options (which I do not agree with)...I posted the articles because I thought that they gave good advice about training and consistency. Your dog might be ill or have a thyroid problem (if the aggression is really that, aggression) but if your puppy is just playing too roughly and you are getting scratches ...yes, you will bleed. You bleed when you are scratched by a rose bush too...but it just happens, the rose is not to blame. Please stop looking at your puppies as demonic...they are just puppies. When a child misbehaves, the parents are usually not in control...the same with puppies...you have to take control of the situation (that does NOT mean that you have to be abusive or controlling, but that you have to be wise, knowledgable and loving) and the only way you can do that is through training. Please, for the sake of your puppies and the sake of your emotions, take your puppies to puppy kindergarten and then keep taking classes. If you are consistently working with your puppy and you still have problems, talk it over with the trainer or a behaviorist. If you feel that you can't go to classes, hire a trainer or behaviorist to come to your home. If you really believe that your puppy is aggressive, then a behaviorist is necessary. If your puppy is simply being a playful, albeit too rough, puppy then you have to get training to learn how to stop the behavior. But I will tell you, without a doubt, that muzzles and slapping are NOT the answer. You will only succeed in making your dog fearful and reactionary. Your dog has to feel safe with you. Otherwise he will learn to protect himself... Frankly, I am quite concerned that you are mentioning the frustration levels, the muzzles and the slapping...the dog's behavior...but are not addressing YOUR behavior or the things you are doing to learn. By saying this I am not talking about walking away or restraining with a leash or muzzle or smacking...but what are YOU doing to LEARN how to work with your puppy? How often are you working with your puppy...alone, not with others around...and are you using positive reinforcement or alpha-roll behaviro? These things are important and without knowing what you are actually doing (on a consistent basis) we really have a tough time trying to help. We want to help...but the best help we can offer, at this point is the advice to get professional training before your puppy gets any older. Please, take the good advice that has already been given. And if that advice is not enough, then please, get some help for your puppy.