Need help FAST!

[lindamarie]

Okay..........a good friend of ours wants BORROW Bogart!
I was working out and he left me a voicemail and asked if he could borrow him w/o either of us there.
Walt had lunch with this guy this afternoon and Bogart went with them. We see these people a lot & trust then, but I can't imagine why he wants to borrow my doodle!
I called back and they were leaving and he's calling me back tonight. WHAT DO I SAY?
I don't want to LOAN my dog!!!! HELP!! How can I tell a good friend NO!!???

[KingstonTodd]

It all depends on WHY!! I let people watch/walk/play with our doods all the time and they love their outings and visits with Uncle Moma, or Aunt Kristen. Its good for them to go out with other people and not just thier alpha. I cant think of why they phrased it as borrow and not "play with". I would have my suspicious hat on.

[lindamarie]

Todd, I had never thought of it that way of letting Bogart just BE with someone else as an outing or getting away. Maybe it's because he's my SD. I don't know. I'm not really suspicious as this guy LOVES Bogart and I know wouldn't put him in harms way.......Maybe it's just ME! My paranoia strikes deep when I think of someone having him in a car or maybe not watching him.....I think maybe I'm a little whacko!
I'm just not prepared for why he would want to do this! I think of th thousands of dollars we have in him and what recently happened to me at the grocery store. I had 2 shady men approach me and started asking toooooo many questions. I was concerned they may want to steal him.
But, your response calmed me down a bit. My PTSD always gets in the way of things. Maybe I need to lighten up and not be so worried........aargh
Thanks......I'll let you know what this is all about later.

[MaxandMe]

i COULD see saying they'd watch Bogie if you went on a trip but borrow him to what? play?

how LONG have you know them? how CLOSE of friends are you?

i have a friend for 15yrs now and she keeps saying Peanut is like a reincarnation of her dog
and I agree and she a year ago wanted to borrow her and i gave a lame excuse
LATER her daughter said to me, YOU KNOW you'd hever have gotten peanut back if you lent her to my mom

ALSO LINDA.............BOGIE IS A SERVICE TRAINED DOG they don't get loaned OUT
what if something were to happen??? YOU"VE done a TON of training honey......he's not just the ordinary house pet/dog

ARE YOUR friends considering getting a dog?


HERE's an alternative.......why don' they come to YOUR HOME and play with bogie in YOUR backyard?
OR have them call the Doggie Rental company.,,,,,,,,YES theyre out there


ME? i'd say NO i can 't as Bogie is STILL IN TRAINING AND SPECIALLY TRAINED TO HELP OUT AS A SERVICE DOG

[SamsonsMom]

I can so see Todd's point of view, but since Bogie is an SD I'm going to agree with Annmarie.

Good excuse for right now - Bogie is in the middle of training and evals to be a therapy dog, not a good time to interrupt his training, even though you're sure nothing would happen - Bogie is just in the middle of training right now.

[KingstonTodd]

I am not trying to say one way or another until we know WHY??? Sometimes dogs need to be dogs, even service dogs, but maybe not during evals, your right. My guys are noy SDs but they are monetarily very valuable none the less (tested breeding dogs), but I do know that my father in law loves to play with them and his blood prussere lowers after a tough work week in the city and he has the doods over for some fetch, so I trust him and let them go. Or I take them hiking and let the off leash to roam the conservation area hiking with me for hours. Its a risk but they need the release and it brings me so much joy. It really depends on how well you trust your friend and what they want to do. I am so interested in why, and the phrase "borrow". My gut still says thats word is sketchey.

[lindamarie]

Okay.......I think the point is understood that Bogart has had elaborate training for me and now is being evaluated for others..........and will have a 5 million dollar insurance policy!
I have to totally agree with annmarie for the reasons she has given.
These friends are very close and I even taught their daughter. We see them often. Tom (the friend) LOVES Bogart! In fact, he was the one who got us involved in the Saturday morning autistic children meetings that Walt attends with Bogart every Saturday morning.
These are the friends where Bogart peed on their hutch in the dining room!
They are also the ones who took 10 of us friends to Thanksgiving dinner at their country club and even when I forced, wouldn't take a cent from me and paid the entire bill!
We may even spend Christmas Eve with them this year if I opt out of going to my aunts this year...they invited us last year.
I FULLY trust them.......but I don't trust anyone with my dog! Not b/c I fear they will hurt him, but accidents happen.

They have a little 13 year old Yorkie who they are waiting to put down. George has an enlarged heart and gets very ill yet rallies for another few months. Tom is devastated over the fact that he will be losing George at any given time.

I talked to Tom late last night. I think he had had a few cocktails when he left me the voicemail.
When I talked to him, he expressed his love for Bogart.......I mean this guy really LOVES him! He brags about him to everyone!
His "borrowing" was an expression to let me know that he would feel honored to have me drop Bogart off at any time at his house.
Hmmm.......when we're there......I am constantly watching Bogart to make sure he doesn't mark the areassssssss........many of them....where their old George has peed!
They have a lovely home and it makes me so nervous! Yet, they don't care as they are replacing any carpeting after George passes.

Bottom line..........I suppose that it's up to me to "drop off" and let him "borrow" Bogart at any time I want. He wouldn't be driving around or walking him around......I don't think. If it were just in his house alone and nowhere else, I guess I could do it for awhile??
I feel like such a jerk! But, I have to admit that I am highly overprotective of Bogart..........ya know?

[Cinsmom]

We're asked all the time for a friend to "borrow" Cinnamon. We do drop her off when we can't take her out of town, but she isn't our service dog. Plus, We know why she is wanted at their house...she plays with their dog and wears him out! Of course, she's worn out too, which is a good thing.

Bottom line is do what your gut tells you. Tell him not at this time. Don't give an excuse unless he presses.

[Jac]

I am late to this...but I would say...NO!

Bogie has one master, you. He also has your family...but he is not a circus act...he needs to be secure in his role and that means with you as his handler.

I would not allow it. You could say that you are flattered but that it would be confusing to Bogie and that he has to know that you are his handler...so you can't loan him out.

If they don't understand, too bad. Sorry...but I think that is really out of line. Bogie is not an act. He is a helper. A trained service and therapy dog...I would not allow that confusion to happen.

[lindamarie]

AWESOME response, Jac and I want to thank you!!
It is all true and I know that YOU understand SD very well!
I like that......."Not a clown........."..........or for that matter "a one dog act!"
He's not an entertainer although he is very capable of that when we're around!!

[KingstonTodd]

Doesnt sound to me like he wants a clown or a circus act. It sounds like he is starting the grieving process before his little one has even passed, and he knows how hard it will hit him and the company of Bogie may be a comfort to him. Am I the only one seeing it this way? Still your choice and you can say no and nobody will judge you, but that is the way I see it (from the info provided).

[Jac]

I understand your point, Todd, but I think that most people don't understand the dynamics of a service dog.

In order to be a good service dog, that dog has to KNOW who the handler is and have respect for that handler alone. Sure they can be friendly with other people when they are NOT working...but they are not like an average pet.

If this man is trying to ease his pain by becoming close to another dog, that is understandable...but I still don't think that it is healthy for him to fixate on Bogie...maybe he should volunteer at the local shelter to walk dogs...maybe Linda could talk to him about helping him to find a Doodle when the time is right...reassure him, help him, but don't take away from the importance of Bogie's life as a service dog.

[SamsonsMom]

Linda - I'm so sorry for your friend. Does sound like he's starting the grieving process and just wanting the comfort of another dog to help him through the process, especially since he loves Bogie so much. How hard for your friend to know you're going to lose your companion after 13 years.

I'd still say though a SD is not a dog to be loaned, for the reasons Jac stated. My Grandmama's SD never has another handler besides her, not even to go outside and pee and during play time with my son, my Grandmama is always present - first to release her SD to play and than to call him back to work. Now my Grandmama does have to be a bit more strict on her SD than other handlers. She's legally blind and deaf so she relies completely on her SD to go anywhere.

[lindamarie]

These are interesting responses and are actually educational for me as well as others.
I can recall asking Jac far before I started training Bogart for Service if Bogart will be a "normal" dog.
I didn't really know what the "rules" were and wanted to know if they played etc like any dog would. Remember that, Jac?
Her answer was YES that they do!
Bogart LOVES to play. In fact, at this evaluation we're doing for therapy, the greyhound the guide brings is a distraction to Bogart and I can't wait until we're on our own. So, yes, Bogart enjoys his time in the yard with his buddies and he has plenty of them to be "off work" with.
But, when that vest goes on....or even if I don't use the vest, he must know when it's time to do his job.

Todd, I see where you are coming from, but I do think Jac is right. One handler.........and if Bogart is allowed to play, I need to be there to make sure he listens or he could get very confused. When this much time and effort is put into a SD and a future therapy dog.....we don't need the confusion.
I agree that my friend, Tom, is going through an awful time with George. When we visit them or when they're at out home.......he can play with him all he wants and he loves doing so, but I can't just let him GO!

LOL......I had a funny thought last night. I thought I might put Bogart in a STAY at his front door and hide on the side of the house.......
When he answers, there will be BOGART!! He loves stuff like this! But, then, we would be there after Bogart goes inside. I even thought of calling him on his cell and saying,........"Geeeez.............did Bogart come over uninvited?"

[SamsonsMom]

To cute Linda!!!! I bet your friend would get a total kick out of that! Hey as long as you are there giving the commands to Bogie, I say "play dates" with Bogie and your friend would be awesome fun!

My Grandmama's SD LOVES to play. As soon as she releases her SD, you can totally see the 'normal' dog come out! It's so cute to watch him play with Issac. But as soon as she calls him back, he flips a switch and is ready to work for my Grandmama. Not all work though for her SD, Grandmama can get around her house by herself, so her SD is "off-duty" when they're home alone.