Dominance or just getting carried away??

[Nikkiey]

Juneau is a brat - a very awesome, cuddly and cute one, but still a brat.
He's 10 months old and has always been one to test your patients.

Since we got Juneau at 8 weeks old, we have had him around other dogs, adults and kids a lot! He has also been in ob classes since he was 3 months old and has attended all of the puppy play classes. The one thing we've noticed about Juneau is that he's a very aggressive player, but lately it's getting worse. Everytime he plays with a dog (big or small) he will always go for the back of the neck and grab hold and not let go. Even when he manages to "take down" the other dog he will usually just hold it there (as it wiggles and yips to get out) until he's decided that enough is enough and then let it go and do it all over again.

Now in the beginning, our ob instructor told us to let pups be pups and that they will sort it out. True, most of the time they did, but we were always the same group (give or take a few people) and they knew not to freak out and that if for some reason one of the dogs were to get too carried away, our instructor would step in.

Well, we stopped going to the off leash dog park now because Juneau is too rough and not everyone enjoys that. We've tried attaching a long line to him, so as he plays we can always catch him and give him a time out if we feel he's getting too carried away, but it doesn't seem to be helping anymore. There has never been a time where Juneau has played with a dog where he hasn't tried being dominant - or what I feel is being dominant.

Does anyone have any tips or ideas on what we can do to help curb this unwanted behavior?

Oh and we always take Juneau for a huge walk/run/bike before we go and play with other dogs to help him release some of his energy, but that never seems to make a difference.

[deepnite10]

the rattling of key s makes Toby stop in his tracks..

early on, teaching him the STOP, NO and LEAVE IT..sometime s it just hard to get their attention when they re focused on something else..like play..

at home we worked on the LEAVE IT..and it work d out fine..but, distraction s at the dog park would have me yelling at the top of my voice like a maniac so i just decided to distract him one day when he went after another dogs frisbie..i threw my king ring at the the frisbie and Toby
stop d and ran in the opposite direction..

from that point on, when i felt it would be hard to get his attention id just rattle the key s in my pocket..this included when he was playing with smaller dogs and felt he was getting out of hand..

if he had a smaller dog down and would want to keep playing roughly id just rattle the keys with a STOP..he d just let up and turn away..

about the NO and STOP commands..NO means NEVER, usually doggie anti-social behavior..STOP means not now, but you can do it later..

about the latter..this is usually directed towards annoying instintive behavior..

marking is one of them..watch them when they enter a new house..when they start sniffing that when i say STOP and direct them outside..

barking at strangers on the street..not now, they re OK..but, you can bark again in the house if a stranger approachs..

[lindamarie]

WOW! Deepnite, that is excellent! I especially like the one with strangers!! Good Toby!

OK! Juneau! Nikkiey, I do believe it's dominance. Yet, a little more info on why it is will help.
Does he just DO this for the heck of it.......like just walk up to any dog and do it? Or is another dog really irritating the heck out of him first?

I ask this because I am aware of the awful squealing sound of the dog being held down that makes your blood curdle!

We puppysit (and actually are doing so right now for 10 days) an Australian Silkie Terrier, Joey who is now almost a year and 1/2 old. He weighs 16LBS and Bogart 68.
No matter how often they see each other, Joey is like the energizer bunny and runs loops around my 3 year old egging him on to play, which Bogart likes, but then he is always hanging from Bogart's ears & biting them really hard, hanging from his beard or just antagonizing him. This started from the time Joey was first brought home at around 9 weeks.
I think we have SAINT BOGART because he tolerates this beyond what I can possibly imagine. Finally, Bogart has had it. He pins Joey down and does EXACTLY what you describe! And boy! Does Joey ever take advantage of the sympathy!
I, as well, start screeching at Bogart to STOP, STOP, STOP!
At first, Joey's owners were concerned but less than I was. They finally were saying GOOD! Joey needs to stop this! But no, I still freak out even to this very day. The funny part is that I soon as I tell Bogart to stop, he does.....but Joey is right back at it.....I mean he gets up and immediately starts to drive Bogart crazy. So, sometimes we have to go through a few of these in a row.
By that time my BP is up and I'm afraid Bogart could accidentally kill this 16LB Silkie!
Not so! There's never been any harm to Joey in over a year. He is the instigator & eventually, Bogart has to show dominance or Bogart will eaten up by a 16 LB Silkie! Bogart rarely, if ever, yips or shows signs of the torture he has to be going through. But, FINALLY, he says...ENOUGH......and wops Joey with a paw and does the "thing" to him.
Joey has been here since last Thursday. We have had to go through this a few times in the first couple of days.....then Joey seems to acknowledge and give in. BUT! Seriously! Once Joey goes home......and when we go to visit or he comes here again.....Joey MUST try each and every single time until Bogart gets him squealing and the routine begins until Joey gets it. WHEW! What a pain this is!

Sorry for the long story, but could this be what happens when Juneau is amidst one dog to several? Does he get tested by other dogs which forces him to defend himself and claim dominance? or does he just go looking for it?
If he just goes and does it for no reason....it then would be aggression and needs to be worked on.
Fear not if it is. He can still work it out, but you may have to call in the trainer, privately, and have him/her work it out for you. Our trainer has a few dogs of her own and might even borrow a dog and bring them over in our yard or we meet at a park. She observes and "develops" a plan that usually works.
At 10 months, Juneau can be changed and made to understand this is not proper behavior. If you do nothing, I fear the underlying reason will not be found and Juneau will turn into a fighter. I'm not trying to frighten you.....When you ask for what to do, perhaps deepnite's suggestions with keys and commands might work. Also, a squirt bottle where you immediately walk up and squirt the heck out of Juneau, or a can with a few pennies and dimes in it to rattle in his ear....Many trainers use the squirt bottle effectively.......as long as it doesn't become a game.........mean it and give a command. When/if he stops.....praise the living heck out of him!

This can be resolved.......keep us posted and good luck!

[Nikkiey]

"Does he just DO this for the heck of it.......like just walk up to any dog and do it? Or is another dog really irritating the heck out of him first?"

Juneau loves to play chase. He loves to chase other dogs and have them chase him too. He never just walks up to another dog and starts grabbing at the back of their neck, it's usually after about a minute of "Hi! Wanna Play!?" that he starts grabbing at their fur. I would say that 90% of the time, the other dog is not annoying him, Juneau just gets lost in the play and starts getting carried away. I know he's not hurting the other dog because even when I grab Juneau and hold him still for a little break to help him calm down the other dog is usually right there next to us barking and trying to get Juneau to come back and play.

"Sorry for the long story, but could this be what happens when Juneau is amidst one dog to several? Does he get tested by other dogs which forces him to defend himself and claim dominance? or does he just go looking for it?"

There are times where he has to defend himself because he's ganged up on (there are two boxers in our ob class who tag team) but with those dogs, he never tried to take them down. He usually goes the other way, but if there is only one of them there, he's going for them! The two of them are pretty evenly matched in size and playing skill and we rarely see them being dominant with one another (even though both are male), but as soon as another dog enters the picture Juneau changes gears and Mustang (one of the boxers) is forgotten about and all Juneau cares about is getting the other dog.

"if he had a smaller dog down and would want to keep playing roughly id just rattle the keys with a STOP..he d just let up and turn away..
about the NO and STOP commands..NO means NEVER, usually doggie anti-social behavior..STOP means not now, but you can do it later..."

I am certainly going to try that!!! Thank you for the suggestion! I tried a few times to call his name to try and get his attention, but I stopped that really quickly cause I knew it wasn't working and I didn't want him to think, "Well she called my name, but I didn't come and I kept playing. Maybe I never have to come?"


Thanks for all the help, I really appreciated any suggestions you guys have!!

[Nikkiey]

Oh and we did try the squirt bottle when he was younger because he was a counter surfer, but he would just turn, look at us, and then open his mouth!!!

...I wonder if he would think as highly of a super soaker....

[deepnite10]

if your going to try the keys..

unlike Toby and me..try it at home first..let him know how unpleasant the sound of the keys are by rattling them next to his ear..* they ll hate it*..

later use it to get his attention they give the command..eventually Toby
stop d what he was doing when he heard the keys..then stared at me to awaiting a command..usually a STOP or NO..

[lindamarie]

I'm repeating myself, but I really think the squirt bottle is a great deterrent.
It should have a powerful squirt ability and must not become a game.
Keep the bottle behind your back. Sometimes, however, even seeing it, stops the behavior.
I say this because I noticed that at a few of our day care centers in town, the person watching the group of dogs carries one around.