When to spay/neuter????

[zhtmom]

I am new to this forum, so hope I am doing this post correctly.
I am on a waiting list for a puppy that will be ready to go home in March and have sent in my deposit.
The breeder contacted me today and indicated they will be having the puppies spayed/neutered before they come home - around 7wks. The breeder said they were changing the policy because previous adoptive families expressed they would have preferred this when getting their puppies. Apparently, the cost of spay/neutering varies by the weight of the dog regarding anesthesia - a difference of $200. The breeder says their vet said it would be fine but my husband was concerned because he had always heard you wait until they are 6mos. and have some maturity.
I have researched this but most people say just ask your vet. I don't have a vet right now - our last dog passed away and our vet has moved since then.
We have put a lot of time into picking a breed this time (not just a shelter/classified ad dog) and we will be spending a good deal of money and want to do things right. I don't want to have something done to a puppy for my convenience if it is not good for it in the end. 7 weeks seems very young?!
Help me PLEEEEEEEEESE!

[SamsonsMom]

First WELCOME to the forum!!!! And congrats on your new little addition! There is a lot of debate on when to spay or neuter your pet. Some breeders are turning to spaying or neutering before the pup goes to their forever home. There are articles that say early spay/neuter is fine and has no ill effects on your pup. I think it's whatever you feel most comfortable with happening.

As for the cost, in my area the only difference in cost of neutering (I have male dogs) only comes if the dog is over 80 lbs. In Oklahoma, my vet charges $148 for a neuter procedure unless the dog is over 80 lbs, and than the price goes up according to how large your dog is.

[kirama]

It seems alot of breeders do early neutering, I have read a couple of studies on it that state there is no difference in the long term if it is done early. I would not wait much longer than 5 or 6 months because with a male, once they start marking and lifting their leg, neutering won't usually stop that from happening. Beck was neutered at 4 months and he still squats which is just fine with me =)

[Lucky Me]

Hot topic.......
I am one that prefers to wait until 14 months... lots of mud throwing on this one!!
Here is what I base my reason on....
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/he ... rcent.aspx
http://www.dogtorj.net/id79.html (some of the links are not working on here, but MAN did he have a good argument!)
Then again, there are people out there that that need to spray/neuter early.
I just choose later myself.

[lindamarie]

Recently, we had another discussion regarding this. I, for one, prefer no earlier than 6 months. Yet, some are doing it at 3 months.
I hate to jump in here with anything negative, but wow! 7 weeks sounds soooooooo soon!! It concerns me, personally.

[Jac]

Wow, 14 months, Judi? That surprises me! I will need to ready your resources...I know that you do a lot of research.

I prefer to have the pup spayed/neutered prior to reaching maturity, so I advise my puppy families to have it done by 5-6 monts...but I am flexible with that if their vet feels that it is too young. I tell them to work with their vet...but I also tell them that there are important risks of unwanted pregnancies if the puppy is mature enough.

I believe that many breeders, almost all Australian Multigen breeders, prefer early spay and neuter to ensure that it is actually done. Too often people neglect to have the surgery, if it is left to the families, and the results are not good...none of the responsible breeders that I know want to cause their puppies to be bred...it takes careful selection to get a good breeding dog and just because a pup is a great pet does not mean it will be a good breeding dog...so, the breeders take that risk away by doing ESN.

While I don't do ESN any more, I did do it with two litters...the puppies healed very quickly, within a few hours they were up playing and acting like everything was all right.

I don't like to agree or disagree with either option, so long as the breeder has done a lot of research and has made a decision that seems right for her/him and the puppies. The important thing is what is right for the pups. It is a touchy issue with many good arguments on both sides.

Some will say that there are health benefits for ESN and others will cite risks...it really is something that has to be decided on a case by case basis.

Good breeders fall on both sides of this issue...

Most Australian Multigen breeders are REQUIRED by their contract to spay and neuter their puppies before they are placed...so many of them have no choice.

My bottom line is that if a breeder (or individual) wants to do ESN they need to talk, at length, with their vet and feel secure in the vet's knowledge and ability. The puppy owner needs to ask the vet if they are completely prepared for an emergency if something goes wrong...you would be surprised at how many vets are not prepared. So, I would have some very candid discussions with the vet...perhaps, since your husband is concerned, your breeder will ask her vet to contact you both and discuss the procedure and benefits/risks with you. I know that your breeder will want you both to feel good about the decision.

It is not just about money, but the benefit of not having to spay your puppy is a good one...that means that your puppy will not be leaving your home for a surgical procedure...and you will not have the risk/expense of the operation. It also means that you won't have to take 10 days out of your life to care for your dog when he/she recouperates from the surgery if it is done under your watch.

Congratulations on getting a puppy and on doing the research! It is so important that you have asked the right questions and that you are not taking everything for granted...I commend you and your husband for asking the questions...I hope that you will post when your puppy arrives! (We are expecting pups in early March too...so I will be sharing your joy! )

[Lucky Me]

Jac said...
(We are expecting pups in early March too...so I will be sharing your joy! )

Wow! March is going to be busy! Tuesday is due March 6th! When are your girls due Jacque?
We might have some bets going!
On spaying Jac.... my contract states by 6 months, but if I was asked to consider later, I might have to consider after what is slowly coming out in the medical world...
and ESN is just WAY too young in my book.
I sure wish all the links worked on the second site..... his argument sold me!

[Jac]

Hey, our pups will be due at the same time...I am expecting March 6 too! Fun! You and I have so much in common (besides...you are my friend) and I am thrilled to be going through this with you...we have both waited long enough! LOL

I did a little more research...I wanted to see more about the studies. I have found it too common to have people quote that "studies show" without giving details about the studies...so many variables that I just don't trust the outcome unless I know more...plus, I think that this debate and much of the information is outdated...so I was looking for something more current.

I found a very good article that points out the pros and cons in a very detailed and honorable way...and when they talk about what age is most appropriate they say, "For decades, the traditional age for neutering dogs and cats has been 6-9 months. There is no clear scientific basis for choosing this age, and it has been suggested that this practice arose as a response to anesthetic mortality in very young animals in the first half of the 20th century.[70] Anesthetic procedures have evolved dramatically since that time, and it has since been demonstrated that not only is the procedure safe in puppies and kittens 7-12 weeks of age, but these younger patients actually recover faster and have fewer complications than those neutered at the traditional age.[65,102,176] "

Here is the compete article: http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/144600

[Lucky Me]

Poked around on the second site and found his article & explanation.....
http://www.dogtorj.net/id57.html
Yikes.....I'm going to shut up now.....I guess we are leaving lots of things to weigh on.
At least you will have a lot to make this decision with zhtmom.......sorry
Oh! And WELCOME!!

[Jac]

Oh, my goodness! I didn't realize this was a first post for zhtmom...welcome to the forum!
You started a good discussion...and I, honestly, don't have strong feelings either way...I do find it fascinating...and I understand both sides.
And, don't worry, I really respect Judi and I am just chiding her a bit...lol
Judi...never stop helping us out! You are a wealth of info!
I will now need to check back to see your references from your references! ha!

[Jac]

I just read the article...I had seen that one before...and it is very good. Very informative.
I guess that the point of this topic is to say to the new puppy family (and the worried husband) that really great vets have differing opinons...for sure...but the interesting thing is that the difference of opinion is no longer with the old-school reasoning. There have been many advancements in the technology and procedures and the surgery itself can be very safe (given the right vet) and the recovery time is exceptional...and cancers happen with or with out the surgery, no matter the timing...I think that those things are indisputable...so then it just gets down to the other arguments...which are important, of course.
What I found interesting is that they can do a tubaligation! Well, that is a good thing for the dog...and will keep them happy and healthy...but for the owner, it still means heat cycles and all of the things that go with it...stray dogs following you home, watching your girl for 21 days...because even though she can't get pregnant, she CAN still get diseases (brucellosis for one)...so it is not a good idea to let her mate...and then you also have the mess...
I don't know...I really don't...
But I do believe that the surgery is safe, so long as the vet is knowledgable and experienced...and prepared!

[MaxandMe]

HI and WELCOME zhtmom.............congrats!!! can't wait later on that is to see pics!!!

who came 1st? chicken or egg?
that's how this topic answers as well.

I had Peanut spayed in her 6th month
and MAX was 7.5 to 8mos old.

my vet only does early neutering/spaying if they're already operating on a puppy and then it's combined surgery.
othewise they prefer to wait.


side note:
in the old daYs i remember only females being fixed and the boys had their click clacks in place hahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[doodleheaven]

I had my pup neutered around the 6 month mark. My vet won't do early neutering. Her reasons are 1) the anesthetic is harder on their little bodies (especially their liver) and 2) they sometimes have to remove a couple of teeth which come out around the 5-6 month time. These teeth come out in a inappropriate spot in their mouth like behind the front row of teeth (I can't remember the details of this) and it's much healthier for a dog to have both of these done at once instead of two surgeries.

That's only her opinion but I followed it.

Good luck.

[Lucky Me]

the boys had their click clacks in place

Too funny!!!
Never heard them called that before!!!

[Jac]

Originally Posted by Lucky Me

Too funny!!!
Never heard them called that before!!!

I laughed at that one too! Must be New York slang, eh? hahaha

Originally Posted by doodleheaven

I had my pup neutered around the 6 month mark. My vet won't do early neutering. Her reasons are 1) the anesthetic is harder on their little bodies (especially their liver) and 2) they sometimes have to remove a couple of teeth which come out around the 5-6 month time. These teeth come out in a inappropriate spot in their mouth like behind the front row of teeth (I can't remember the details of this) and it's much healthier for a dog to have both of these done at once instead of two surgeries.

That's only her opinion but I followed it.

Good luck.

Hmmm...that doesn't make a lot of sense because what your vet is referring to is Base Narrow Canines...and those MUST come out early on! The surgery has to take place before the pup is 10 weeks old or they are never really corrected.
That just sort of supports my theory that much of this is based on old wive's tales...and there are lots of old wives out there!