Have you ever seen a doodle get overheated? Or heat stroke?

[LoopTail]

Hi,

I was writing quite a long story with questions here the other day and my computer locked up and disconnected me right as I was almost finished. So, I will just try to make it short this time.

Have you ever seen a labradoodle, goldendoodle, lab or standard poodle suffer from heat stroke or heat exhaustion, or have you seen them get overheated? Or, have you seen any type of dog suffer from heat stroke? Did the dog stumble around as though s/he was drunk? (as one of the symptoms)

Is it possible that labs (or dogs that are half lab) would get overheated faster than the average dog because their ancestors are from a cold climate (Newfoundland)? Has anyone heard of a dog suffering from heat stroke (or near heat stroke) even in cooler weather (in the 40's outside) because of a LOT of fetching / retrieving?

I will start with these questions, although I do have more. If anyone has any thoughts about even one of my questions, I really appreciate any thoughts at all. Thank you!
Mary

PS I should mention that my dog is fine (in case anyone is wondering what all these questions are about). But, she has had two different scary situations and I am trying to figure out if what happened was because she got overheated or because she has a heart issue. We are getting her heart checked next week, but in the mean time I am trying to get as much knowledge as I can.

[lindamarie]

This is scary stuff.
I just posted this article yesterday...........
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12967

Now at the end of the article, you see I posted about an Irish Wolfhound.
The symptoms are awful! This poor dog was lying in my driveway and her tongue was hanging out.........she was breathing so HARD......that I had to hold the hose on her tongue and try to get her to swallow! All the hosing I did and everything WOULD have helped..........but when the owners came to get her, instead of picking her up in the car and rushing her to an ER, they walked her home and did nothing!
She died.

The reason I splashed water on Bogart is because he is black and I was doing all I could do to cool him down FAST!
I don't think it matters as to what breed........when they get hot etc., they could easily die w/o water and a cool down.
Yes, this dog was staggering like she was drunk.......and finally layed down and couldn't get up. I could cry thinking of her!

[Jac]

Hi Mary, heat stroke signs can be very noticable or very subtle.
I did a quick google search and came up with a lot of articles, here is one...hope it helps: http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/arti ... ages01.txt

[MaxandMe]

HI MARY........i sure hope all is with with your Doodle.

I also sent this to another person who may have gone through this ??? and they'll reply soon.
Keep us posted and i know you've got some great articles to start with for now.

[KingstonTodd]

Labrador retreivers can have a condition called exercise induced collapse which can be fatal. They have such a high work drive that the will literally work themselves sick. You can google it fo rmore info. I think our Gus would do that if we didnt force him to take breaks during fetch. It is scary when they get overheated.

Here is an interesting link.

http://www.thelabradorclub.com/uploa...20Collapse.pdf

[tuffystar]

I appreciate this post because our dogs could all be at risk of problems like this. I think all of us should be aware and watch our dogs very carefully.

[Raleighsmom]

These are great informative articles...thanks Todd and Jac for posting them....quick story...many years ago, while on vacation, our housesitter took our Old English Sheepdog Bailey for a walk on a very hot summers day...it was over 90, and extremely humid...he hadn't walked her over a 1/2 mile when she collapsed...a tearful call from him and our vet confirmed that she had died from heat stroke....yes, she was 12 yrs. old, but it a lesson was learned from her death, that being that no one...humans nor pets alike, belong out in heat like that exercising!

[Elmo the Bear]

Hi all... sorry I've not been on for a while.

Elmo used to do this a lot. He wouldn't have the panting or "drunk" effect but would just lay down. He wasn't panicing (sp?) or anything he lay down.

We went through a whole of issue and ended up overheating. So this weather (it's hot in the UK too) we have his belly shaved... he gets to keep his coat but his "core" (vital organs etc) get some air con.

[Lucky Me]

Great article Todd!!
I was at the counter at the vet's office about 6 months ago, and there was a Labrador breeder who was upset because her breeding dog had this or produced it.
No wonder she was so upset!
From that article, it sounds like they have created a DNA test for it now.

[LoopTail]

Kathie, I am so very sorry that happened to your dog. I can't imagine how shocking and upsetting that must have been. I think you are right about the lesson - that nobody should be exercising out in the heat. I think the humidity is important too from everything I have read. Either heat or humidity (or both) are not good exercising weather. I think those of us who have dogs with more fur should be even more cautious to make sure our dogs take play breaks to cool down - in any weather. I have read online that dogs have had heat stroke even in cooler weather from playing or working too hard. I never knew any of this until I started doing research. I only ever heard of dogs suffering from heat stroke from being left in hot cars.

Thank you to Jacque for posting that article. That is something every dog owner should read. Info about heat stroke should really be posted at all dog parks.

Lindamarie, I may have said this on the other thread, but I really think you did the right thing cooling your dog off with water. I have probably spent ten hours now trying to research heat stroke and what may have happened with my dog, and the one thing I have seen consistently about heat stroke in dogs is the importance of cooling them down immediately with cool water, but without going to extremes since using ICY COLD water is too much of a shock to the dogs and will cause blood vessels to constrict. I have read that we have much more of a chance of saving a dog if we work to cool it down FIRST before taking it to a vet since getting it's temperature down is the biggest priority. I actually read something I never would have thought of - if a dog may have suffered heat stroke, one should NOT put their dog in a crate to transport him to the vet even if he has had cool water poured on him because the crate will become like a hot sauna! (because of the heat of the dog and the wetness) Scary!

[LoopTail]

KingstonTodd,

I had never heard of that before. Thank you for posting that link. I read it last night & then showed it to my husband and we are both amazed at the similarities. The symptoms do seem to match our dog's symptoms! I would have never known about this condition if you hadn't brought it up (exercise induced collapse). Since I do not have a medical background, I didn't quite understand if it was possible for a labradoodle to have EIC. I actually emailed the university who did that study to ask them, but haven't heard back from them yet (I know they must be very busy & understand if they don't have time to answer, of course). We adopted our dog from a shelter at 1 year old, so I don't know what she was like as a puppy (she is 3 now), but I recently discovered (through my internet research) who her breeders were & who her doggy parents are. Her mom is a standard poodle and her dad is a labradoodle. Has anyone heard of a labradoodle having EIC?

My dog is OBSESSED with fetching... she loves to fetch more than any dog I have ever seen at any dog park. She has a passion for it the way Olympic stars have a passion for their sport, but at times I even wonder if it is obsessive compulsive even. If we are at a dog park and she is panting and needs water, she will stop to drink, HOWEVER, if someone picks up her ball and throws it (not understanding that she needs to take breaks) she'll dash away from the water bowl INSTANTLY for that ball. Both incidents that happened to her happened after excessive play without the breaks she needed. The first symptom to show up in each case (following heavy panting) was that her legs suddenly lose control... it is difficult to describe, but it kind of reminds me of those plastic toys we used to have as kids and you press the button on the underside and the legs of the pony or deer collapse. It is what one would imagine a dog to look like if it could get drunk - staggering. I think it might look the way a pony looks when it tries to walk for the first time. It's hard to describe the way her legs looked in both scenarios, but both times her eyes had panic in them, and we were terrified too, so we made her lie down on her side. The first time it happened, she kept flailing her legs around trying to get back up, but we wouldn't let her, and she eventually stopped. The second time it happened (7 months later) she didn't flail her legs and try to get back up once we made her lie down. She just lay there and let me pour cool water all over her to cool her down. In both cases she was very hot. In the recent incident, which happened just last week, I noticed how hot her ears felt, and her mouth. She was completely conscious both times this has happened. In both cases, after lying there with us for 20 minutes, she got up and slowly walked around at first, as if trying to make sure her legs were fine again. Then, a few minutes later, acted like she wanted to play again, as if nothing ever happened. We didn't let her, of course.

I will send this part now & write more later. Thank you so much for posting that link. I will show it to her vet.
Thank you to everyone for your thoughts! I appreciate that so much!!

Mary

[lindamarie]

OHHHHHHHHHHH! KATHIE!!!!!!

[DrEPropp]

I am human medical trained, not a vet trained but I want to point out a few things. You cannot determine 'excessive' in your dog. The point when things become serious is a transient moving line with subtle, mutable, multi-factored, environmental influences. Normally dogs regulate themselves same as people because something in the brain chooses to stop for self protection. Therefore, you might have to protect your dog by NOT letting him play fetch. The fact that he did not learn the lesson after the first collapse indicates to me that he is incapable of self-protection when it comes to exercise, so that job falls to you. Parents regulate children's water intake & watch for heatstroke or exercise fatigue (canine- EIC). Compulsivity makes sense from a human perspective, a human can't stop playing cards, drinking or fidgeting, he is addicted or compulsive but in the end the term does not matter because the behaviors are dangerous or causing problems. Your dogs heart can be weakened by repeated incidents... whether it is EIC, compulsivity, addicted to that ball or another as yet to be determined reason. Because the symptoms can be subtle up until the 'drunk walk' or 'crumpling legs' I would work on finding other things your dog likes doing. Maybe for boredom: in-house games with no running, puzzles, scent searching etc. It is hard to do this but it is possible your dog's life could depend on it. I don't mean to be too dramatic but if this were a child it is what I would suggest to the parent until all info is tested, gathered, checked.

I hope the vets can help. FYI: (IMO) vets should never be too busy to listen to a concerned dog owner. You saw the 2 incidents, you know your dog, they NEED your info and your follow up analysis to be able to best help your dog. I encourage you to contact them again. You are looking out for your dog so don't feel bad that they are busy. Just my opinion but if they ignore you maybe get a second opinion or a new vet.

Hope your dog is ok. I will be offline for a while so sorry if I won't respond further.

[lindamarie]

Eileen!
Thank you for the profound insight!

[LoopTail]

Eileen,

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this. I appreciate that very much! You are right, and I am completely fine with not letting her play fetch if that is what it takes to keep her safe and healthy. After the first incident happened, I actually only let her do small amounts of fetching at a time & I insisted she get in the baby pool to keep cool and I refused to continue fetching with her after a certain number of throws of the ball (much less than she wanted, but I was too worried about her health to do big amounts of fetching). I had become quite the protective mother, and I am sure people at dog parks would wonder why I would stop a dog from fetching who seemed perfectly happy fetching, but I had to do it for her sake. A few factors happened on that evening last week at the dog park though (including a bigger workout than normal) which probably contributed to the scary situation (I will talk about that in a separate message so that if anyone does a search here in the future about heat stroke or EIC, they can compare notes with what happened to my dog).

I think your advice on helping my dog with boredom was excellent. She loves fetching so much that I almost forgot how much she really does enjoy other activities too. I am not sure what you meant by puzzles though. Such as hiding a treat under an object and having her guess which object has the treat? She would enjoy scent searching too; she loves when I introduce her to new scents. She definitely loves activities where we give her full, undivided attention and she can be very focused on learning something new. She loves to learn, so really even if we find out from the vet that she can't fetch anymore, this just means we will start a new chapter in which she gets to learn more, discover more, and play more in a different way. I'm really glad you brought that up. It will keep me focused on the positive options for her. Thank You!