Have you ever seen a doodle get overheated? Or heat stroke?

[LoopTail]

I thought I'd share a bit more about what happened to my dog. Maybe someone who knows about EIC or heat stroke will have thoughts on this or it will help them in some way (even if they do a search a few months down the road and find this).

Unfortunately, last week at the dog park a few factors happened which probably contributed to the heat stroke, EIC or similar type condition.

One: this dog park didn't have a baby pool like the park she usually goes to (and we have one at home, as you can see in the photo) and water really helps to cool her off. In the past she has fetched in lakes for a very long time without ever appearing overheated like she appears on land after fetching a long time.

Two: This was the first time I have ever seen her running all around the dog park with other dogs; usually she only wants to fetch & I was so happy to see her enjoying running around with other dogs for a change, and she seemed to really enjoy playing with them, so I let her continue to play and run around longer than I should have because I was so happy she was socializing with other dogs.

Three: At one point, I ran off for five minutes to help a situation where someone's dog got out of the dog park and in the mean time someone was fetching with my dog (I didn't ask them to, but she must have thrown her ball at them; she does that with her mouth). I should have taken my dog with me. I was only gone for five minutes, but by the time I got back she was panting a lot because she had already been playing a long time & then fetching (how many times have mothers said "I was only gone for five minutes..."? I should have known better!). When I got back, I told my dog she needed to drink some water & lie down next to me, which she did. She was panting so hard that I even poured a little cool water on her head. A minute later, someone else picked up her ball & threw it, and my dog immediately ran after it. I should have leashed her during her rest breaks, but I was under the impression a dog should never be on a leash in a dog park because it could create aggression between dogs. When she ran after the ball, she was fine during the run, but the ball slipped under the chain link fence and she could see it, but it was about a foot from her reach on the other side of the fence. She immediately started pawing at the dirt at a very rapid pace, trying to get to that ball. About 5 seconds after that, her legs looked like they were collapsing and she tried to walk, and her legs looked dizzy and drunk, as I described above. This is the part that makes me wonder if the excitement of seeing her ball just out of reach may have caused EIC since I read that excitement with heavy fetching exercise contributes to the collapse of the legs. We made her lie on her side & I kept pouring water all over her. Her ears and mouth felt hotter than I had ever felt them before. She stayed there panting, although calm and completely conscious, for about 20 minutes while I cooled her off & then she got up and walked around normally as though nothing had happened. As we were leaving the dog park, she did a play-bow to initiate play with another dog. I had her on a leash at that point & definitely was NOT going to let her get started all up again in play mode.

The other incident she had last December was after we had fetched with her for such a long time that my husband & I both remarked that it was the most she had ever fetched on land (aside from the lake). We didn't know better at the time that fetching a long time could hurt her & we assumed she would lie down when she wanted to stop, which is what she always did in the past at home, but on that day it was in the 40's and breezy, which was a refreshing change in weather for the South (maybe that fooled her body into thinking she was cooler than she was on the inside?). Because it felt cool outside, the baby pool had been put away. My husband had fetched with her 20 mins, then she took a 5 min break, then I fetched with her maybe another 20 to 30 mins. This was with a fetch-it stick. She seemed so energetic that day; maybe the cool weather made her more frisky.

While I was outside with her, my husband filled up a kong toy inside the house because we were going to go out soon & had to leave her at home. Normally she never ever eats just after playing, but about a minute after she came in the house and drank water and was lying there heavily panting, she discovered the kong toy my husband had gotten ready, and she went over to it and started to chew on it even though she had just been lying there heavily panting. About a minute after she was chewing on the kong, her legs went all wobbily & she staggered all around the kitchen floor with a look of panic in her eyes. It was horrifying; I thought she was choking at first so we rushed over to check her mouth, though she wasn't choking; she was heavily panting and stumbling all around. I can't help but wonder if the kong further contributed by either preventing her from panting and cooling off, thus overheating her (it was a large kong which filled up her mouth). OR, if the excitement of finding a kong just after a lot of heavy exercise, could mean it was Exercise Induced Collapse (since excitement paired with heavy exercise seems to cause the collapse in cases of EIC based on what I read). I am not sure of which, but I will discuss both with her vet tomorrow. I know there are a lot of factors to consider, but I keep going over all of them in my mind like a detective trying to solve a mysterious case. She's our baby, so I can't help but try to figure this out.

Anyway, it helps to be able to talk about it now to get my head clear because I have to make sure I get all these facts out tomorrow so her vet can take all the details into consideration. I hope her precious heart is okay. She's such a good girl.

[4ever doodles]

Your Doodle is not alone Our doodles love to play ball with my son. One, Lilly, LOVEEEEES it. We say she has OCD when it comes to playing ball. We live in Fl, and it gets insanely hot here. Last year, I came home and found my son playing ball with Lilly. Actually, he was hitting the ball ( baseball fanatic) and she was simply retrieving it for him. My kids know well, not to run the dogs when it is hot, to take frequent breaks etc. But my son was happily hitting the ball and not even thinking about Lilly retrieving it repeatedly. It's a given in our household. You hit a ball, it automatically comes back to you He had only been out for 10 or 15 minutes, but it was very hot. When I got out of the car and greeted the pups I looked at Lilly and she looked drunk. Completely drunk. Staggering. Now while she was doing this, she was STILL looking for the ball. She was not ready to quit. We cooled her down by hosing her legs, working our way up. Followed by some water and ice cubes. We took it slowly, didn't want to add shock to the list of troubles. Anyway, Lilly is fine now. But I swear to you, to this day, if we did not monitor her she would do it again. We now play fetch only when it's cool, and in short segments. When it is super hot, we entertain her with the hose( she will catch the water stream) or play fetch in the pool. Lilly is just one of those dogs that has a need for fetch, nothing will take it's place. She loves it.Other things will entertain her, keep her occupied, but fetch is her love. So we simply have come up with safer, cooler ways to play fetch when it's hot. Some doodles will just not stop when they need to.....

[Jac]

Mary, I am very concerned ...I hope that your vet has some good suggestions and that he/she runs some tests for you. Please let us know what your vet says...and how he/she responds to the possibility of EIC.

[MaxandMe]

I am VERY Appreciative when you mary and others share your Experiences whether good or scary as it can also
HELP others to learn!!

i have one son who as a from an infant onwards never could handle heat ...sweated profusely even at 2mos old and older.
ONCE at 2years old one day walked like you described with your doodles...we thought my other son pushed him down
i went running and then he fainted!! we were barely out for more than a short while---that was 15years ago but i will never forget it
I felt horrible but called our doctor that second.....and from then on this one son i've always kept an eye on with heat and
just the other day talked to him about how he should be careful about heat exhaustion and OUR DOODLES as well since
he's home for the summer and plays with them half the day before driving off to skateboard.

I MUST have him READ this post!!!


LONG story short: KEEP sharing your stories, so much for us to read and learn and share!!! THANK YOU.
YOUR experiences can save another dog or puppy's life to an unsuspecting dog owner.

[Lucky Me]

JUST RECIEVED AN EMAIL FROM IGEN.....(things are changing....testing going up & different)
You can get your dog DNA tested for "Exercise Induced Collapse (EIC)" for only $30, $15 if you previously had a PID test done.
Igen news...
http://campaign.constantcontact.com/ren ... dNKxMiB8l0

[Jac]

I got the same email...but, to me, the news is not good.
They are removing the color testing and most of the other DNA tests...and are only covering a few of the "major" diseases. You pay $60 for the first test and $30 (or discounted as you mentioned) for each addtional test.
The good thing is that we can get the additional test (PRA) at a discount because we had the other testing done...the bad news is that it is not nearly as comprehensive and it is much more expensive.
Too bad...makes me think that I'll go back to VetGen or one of the others, just because I don't like the changes...too drastic, too much, too soon.

[Lucky Me]

Had the dogs at the lake today....Tuesday is such a workhorse, she scares me. I know that she is tired but she continously brings me her floaty toy to throw in the lake. She is obsessive when it comes to her frizbee & her floaty toy.(she has a lot of field Lab in her)
Got to thinking...... what happens if your dog has "Exercise Induced Collapse (EIC)" , and it occurs while the dog is swimming out in the lake?
Perhaps it is natures way of eliminating some of the carriers...

[Beverley]

If you have to take your dog out in the heat it can be useful to carry a spray bottle and keep the tummy damp by spraying under your dog every so often. I was once at a training session, and the weather turned unbearably hot and that is what they told us to do. If something like that happened in your yard and your dog collapses, get it in the shower or bath asap.

[Jac]

That is good, sound advice, Beverly. Thanks!

I acutally just read about the spray bottle too...and they also suggested that it isn't good to train a a dog by using a spray bottle as a punishment...because of the benefit of this metod of cooling a dog down.

I appreciate your post.

[Beverley]

Yes thats so true, I once had a dog that was a bit of a nipper, so someone suggested that I used a spray bottle to deter her, then when it came to training and we had to cool them down, she just freaked out and was terrified, and i wished I had never heard ofthe spray bottle punishment.

[Lucky Me]

Was thinking about exercise induced collapse about a month ago.... isn't it resessive? And if so, wouldn't BOTH parents have to carry it?
And since it is not mentioned as poodles carrying it, would not it just perhaps be a gene they carry in an F1 & F1B, and the Labradoodles affected be F2's and higher?
Although I have to say... that Looptails doodle sure sounds like the description for EIC. Sure hope it's not!

[ozzierobbins]

Hi,
I have been doing searches for what caused my labradoodle to collapse suddenly when out for a walk 2 weeks ago. I came across EIC in labradors research done by the Uni of Minnesota which fitted his symptoms exactly. Ozzie is 2.9 yrs old and was playing fetch ball with 2 other dogs on a wide piece of common land when he suddenly went all wobbly and lost the use of his back legs. He looked very confused and disorientated and kept trying to get up but couldn't. Another walker came over to help but Ozzie is 29 kilos and too heavy to lift. He kindly went to get his car to drive it onto the common to get him to a vets as I thought he was having some kind of stroke. It took the walker about 15 minutes to get his car and in that time I managed to get Ozzie back up onto his back legs, reluctantly at first, then walking slowly taking tentative steps and then in a few yards he picked up pace and completeley recovered and started playing again as normal. I took him to vets as we had been doing tests for B vitamin defficiency a week before so we have just tested him for B1 thiamine defficiency although this has come back low but now I don't think his "episode" is neccessarily linked to the B vitamin levels but is EIC as it so exactly fits the description of what happened to him. Generally after Ozzie has been running chasing and fetching a ball for 10 mins he suddenly stops and goes into a stalking position with his head down and seems to forget what he was doing. This lasts a few minutes, then he resumes play again. I think this behaviour is somehow also connected to EIC but would welcome any other labradoodle owners who have seen this kind of behaviour in their dogs. UK vets know nothing about EIC and means we are spending a lot of money on vets fees trying all sorts of tests on him!
Anyway, if anyone else has had similar experiences then I would be interested to hear from them. Thanks so much , Barbara Robbins - Ozzie's Mum

[deepnite10]

i just got thru shaving Oscars tummy just like i had Toby s..they both
like to lay their bellies on a cool service after playing..

from just reading about the effects of heat on dogs..i now carry a gallon carton of water in the car when were out at the dog park..when it s warmer than normal i ll even carry along one of those frozen blocks for coolers..ideally id probably soak them with water..but, i find a good alternative is to keep their bellies and paws cool..

rule of thumb is that if its too warm for me..it twice as bad for them..