things to consider BEFORE breeding

[Maureen]

Originally Posted by Jac

Judi,

I think that as a stud owner you still need to be sure that the bitch is fuly tested because you are promoting the birth of puppies and you need to take it as responsibly as you would if you own the female.
Bottom line? I think it is important, every time, to consider the consequence of the mating to the lives of the puppies...so health is a number one priority.

I have a sad experience in my past, and it came to mind as an "AMEN" to Jac's comment, above.
Once I worked with a breeder, and helped her breed her dog to mine, and then she had a litter of puppies to place. Well, there were difficult personal circumstances by the time the puppies were old enough: one of those hurdles could have been forseen, but one (a family death) could not. Well, the bottom line is that 4 of 9 puppies were safely and carefully placed in homes. But having the responsibility to be available to people and trying to place puppies in good homes, while grieving a real and sad loss, was tough. I was told she was donating the puppies to a rescue organization. It was sad, and I worked with the breeder for hours and weeks, but we were 100's of miles apart so I was limited in what I could do. And it felt terrible to have been part of the whole situation, all the way around.

None of us can predict the future and what is to come, but there is a real question, especially in this economy, of what a new breeder will do, in the case of puppies not selling? Where will they go? How long will they live in the home of the breeder? Or where or how will they get training or care? Is there a plan B if they don't all sell?

I have seen an amateur, casual breeder who had practically all her puppies pre-sold before they were weaned! But that isn't always the case. So I think the responsibility of where those puppies will go after they are born and then weaned and raised is an important question to anticipate before the breeding happens.

[Jac]

Maureen, thank you for sharing this...it is exactly experiences such as the one you describe that make me stop in my tracks when new breeders are all filled with excitement about a litter of puppies coming...while I want to share their joy and excitment...the reality that you just mentioned takes hold and I can't help but wonder what they will do if their pups don't sell.
Another aspect is one that I lived through...we were sold on the importance of early spay/neuter of puppies and I studied a lot to find many experts saying that it is safe. Many of my respected breeder friends were successful in this practice and I thought it would be good for my customers not to have to pay for it...so I had my puppies spayed/neutered at 8 weeks of age. I did that on two litters.
The first litter was fine. The second, I got a call from the vet...one of my beautiful baby girls had her heart stop during the operation. The vet revived her but told me to come and get her because she did "all she could" for her...I got there and the pup was in active seizures...which I didn't know and I thought she was just crying a lot...the vet didn't tell me anything except to take her to the emergency hospital, 2 hours away.
I was given meds to stop the seizures, I got a friend to inject the meds on the trip.
This is a much longer story, but I'll cut to the point. This sweet girl fought for a week to live. I spent every day and night at the vet hospital. Finally, she started to get pneumonia and I realized that I had to let her pass. I held her as she slipped over to the Rainbow Bridge.
The emotional cost was beyond expression...the monetary cost? $11,000 for the emergency care, $600 for an intermediat stop to a vet that I made, and $400 for the botched spay. (I believe that the vet over-sedated her.)
My point is that none of us imagine this heartache...and none of us are ready to make that choice...but...should I have had her put to sleep after the spay rather than go to emergency? I won't know...all I know is that I still can't face what happened without choking up. I still can't look at her pictures without crying.

[MaxandMe]

I SPLIT JUDI"S TOPIC ON TESTING for Studs........as Maureen's and Jac's replies REALLY ARE VERY GOOD TO READ

for ANYONE WANTING TO BREED AND/OR ALSO why TESTING and PLANNING ahead of time go hand in hand

[M&Tdoodles]

I would clearly help out anyone with a litter they were having a difficult time in finding good adoptive homes for. Right now we have about 20 or so people on our waiting list. In September a friend of mine in VT. had a litter of F1B Labradoodles. I sent this information to everyone on our waiting list to give them a nice choice of available pups in November instead of having to wait for our next available litter in the spring. She got good referrals from us and was able to sell her 6 pups fast. Being located in VT. can be a stumbling block but with a little assistance she will not have pups hanging around.
Breeders should get involved on this site and PM anyone who Breeds letting them know they are having a difficult time. Ide be more than happy to assist anyone in this predicament. But we cant refer if we do not know.
This site is such a wonderful spot for breeders to assist other breeders.

[M&Tdoodles]

I forgot to say to JAC, how sad I felt when reading about this experience....very sad ....I think 8 weeks is early for neutering, we clearly leave it up to the adoptive families to do this , and so far they have all done this, and sent us the paper work once completed. It has worked out nicely.

[Jac]

Martha, good points, thanks for posting!
It is great that you are willing to help lead customers to breeders with pups.
Yes, I used to believe in the early spay and neuter...I felt that it was a good thing to do for my clients so that it saved them the money and time...and, importantly...my studies indicated that it was not harmful. In fact, I still think that it is reasonably safe, if you have a good vet...my particular vet was ... well, let's just say I never went back.
But there are many, many breeders who do ESN and have no problems at all. Still, I think that these stories are so important to put out here for anyone who is considering breeding...as much happiness and joy we get from having puppies around...there is also a seriously heartbreaking side too. And a huge expense, if we care enough.
That is what I thought of when I read Maureen's post. In fact, I asked Ann Marie to split the post and put a new topic up... since this post is really more about imparting the SAD and expensive side to breeding that people should understand.

[Tink]

Another point that Jac reminded me of when someone is preparing to breed is that you really do need to have one (preferably 2) vets who you know and trust who can help you when/if you encounter an emergency. Your dam might have a difficult birthing, she may develop an infection after delivery, she may develop mastitis, or any number of things that can become an emergency in a matter of minutes. If you don't have someone to call on, tragedy happens quickly. If your vet is like the ones in my area, you also have to have cash available to pay for the treatment... they do NOT accept payments for small animal treatment unless you're able to work something out long ahead of the emergency. They will simply turn you away.