For anyone considering breeding

[Jac]

Good work Jane! I know that you will produce fine pups...and I am here any time you want to discuss this! Please don't hesitate to call on me.

[cocoandjane]

Jac,

Thank you! I am sure I will call on you at some point in time!!
It will be awhile before I get started...maybe this fall.
Which, when I really think about it,
will be here before you know it!
(Oh, my goodness!! That's a tad overwhelming!!)
Sooo, now is the time to get my ducks in a row!!!

Thanks so much, again!

[Maureen]

Originally Posted by Jac

No, this is not easy money.
In fact...it isn't even good money.

_ (someone)_ _ _ mentioned that you should not invest more than you can lose...good advice...except that there is a certain standard of quality that you owe to the breed, to the families, to your conscience...a standard of quality that comes from testing breeding stock so that you know that you have, at the very least, given these precious babies everything you can to help them have a long, healthy, happy life.

well, there you have it! I have often said "it's good money but it's not easy money" and Jac is right...after the year I have just had I think I would have to even question myself!

as for someone mentioning that we shouldn't "invest" more than we can lose, ...I think that's a saying about gambling, not investing, isn't it?

The fact is that I bought a reputable dog from a reputable breeder and thanks to the mystery of genetics, she carries hip dysplasia. Bad idea for breeding. Another dog I had for 2 yrs ended up having hips that would not pass OFA at 3 yrs old (they were "good" with OFA at 18mos. old). So she was spayed and retired. That's 2. Then there's the first sire I raised...his hips were questionable...might have been "fair" but that's not my standard so he was neutered. What else? Oh yeah, I still don't have a "replacement" dog from that breeder and my 'puppy' will be 2 shortly. So that's 2 yrs of my life and breeding that I have gone without my investment OR without a breed-quality dog!
Not to mention the fact that my 3 yr old could have wreaked havoc if I had sold any of her puppies to breeders, but that's not because I was smart enough to not sell to breeders, but more because I was inexperienced; I would have sold one of my pups or even kept one myself if I needed one at the time.

Then, there's our miniature Poodle...well tested, and in good shape, but not "up" to the job of breeding to my 18" tall female without AI! And AI doesn't always work....so he's 2, and tested up the wazoo, cost $100's in AI, and STILL hasn't given us babies!

I'm officially, in my town, a "hobby" breeder because we only have 3-4 dogs in our home (others in guardian homes). I do count on the income from our puppies, when we get it. Oh yeah, we had a whole 4 puppies from one girl, and NO puppies from the AI breeding we did with the above-mentioned male. And that was at Christmas time.

None of this is because I deliberately put out a lot of cash...we just tried to make careful re-investments as a couple of our girls were getting older, and with guardian contracts coming to an end.

One of our girls did get retired, because she started having trouble delivering puppies and her litter size went down to 6, then 4 in her last 2 litters. So she's happily living with another dog and another family. The timing of her retirement was fixed, for the sake of her health and happiness, but her "replacement" didn't happen. So right now I only have 2 mature girls that I can breed this year. And next year I'll have no males because both are in guardian homes and their time is up, in deference to our great guardians. I had also hoped to get a male puppy from a breeder I mentored and trusted, but he left me high and dry with changing his mind and skipping out on the promise he made, plus one of the litters that didn't happen in the past year or two. Working with other breeders is a whole other topic or adventure, sometimes.


I don't mean to argue or refute what any other breeder has said or believes but I thought maybe instead of saying "call me" I would go ahead and list some of what we've been through in the past two years, while trying to be careful, but look to the future at the same time.
One more thing.....I don't think I'm really unusual! I have had healthy babies, and have not lost any after birth, in 4 yrs of doodle breeding! I'm thanking God for that. I have had some nice-sized litters and have met some great clients. and we still love those puppies. So I don't mean to sound martyr-ish at all. There are lots of excellent breeders who have tougher stories than me. I just think it's naive to say that we can predict what breeding might cost us, from one season to the next.

My father in law has raised/sold angus cattle in Michigan and he would say, if he was here, that working with live animals, this is what we have to face. That's my point, that we make the best decisions, but there's no way we can predict or plan our investments in the same way as approaching a mutual fund.

Having said all of this (whew!) I would have liked a few more breaks, but as I think of what some breeders have been through I'm profoundly thankful. I mean it when I say I'm not unusual in terms of the challenges. And I dread the thought of not doing this anymore, and not having preggo mom-dogs, or luscious silky babies. And I'm not afraid of competition either. I've said from the start 'we can be colleagues or we can be competition. I prefer to have colleagues.' So none of this is intended to discourage anyone either. BUT like Jacque said, if you aren't working to better the breed and breed responsibly with testing, then what ARE you doing? And if you are breeding for the love of the money then you are or might be cutting corners that you don't have to cut!

I'm forever thankful for the (Poodle) breeders who taught me about DNA testing and the screenings that can be done to not run a breed into the ground, but if only someone had talked to me about a year like I've just had! I might have listened ....I probably still would have gone ahead, but I would have been more thankful for the smooth sailing times, ...........
Like I'm thankful for those times, now.

[Jac]

Very well said, Maureen! I have had one of those years this year too...so hard to imagine when we are wired and excited to breed our dogs...but it happens. Far too often.

[MaxandMe]

and i am forever thankful for being able to sit down and read every post you breeders put up since the forum began....really good info

yeah took a while to get through them........but well worth it!!

[Maureen]

WOW!!! That's COMMITMENT!!

good for you Annmarie...that's probably why you have learned so much in a relatively short time

[Jac]

AND...it really makes the time we take to express ourselves worthwhile. Thanks for being so dedicated!

[Maureen]

Originally Posted by Jac

AND...it really makes the time we take to express ourselves worthwhile.

GREAT POINT

[mtd885]

Nicely Put Maureen! Perhaps we can have a mandatory Psych Eval for potential breeders too

[Maureen]

Originally Posted by mtd885

Nicely Put Maureen! Perhaps we can have a mandatory Psych Eval for potential breeders too

hahahahahahaahahahaha!!

Now, let's not be hasty cuz I think the part of me that is NUTS is the part that loves breeding!

[M&Tdoodles]

Maureen,
I had no idea you had all this occur this year. What an experience. Well we will be going through all the testing soon for our upcoming future moms and dads and with the luck of breeding hopefully we will have good experiences with the testing results...if not then we will know exactly how you feel. But our hearts go out to you.
We all need psych evals ..so sick of general people saying that we are nuts to do this because of "ALL THE WORK" involved...But we say its not WORK if you absolutely LOVE what you are doing.

[Jac]

Hi Martha...during this testing period, you will have highs and lows, you will have concerns and fears, and you will have some unbridled excitement. I wanted you to know that, at any time during this process, you may PM me and I am here to help.
I admire that you are testing your breeding stock. I know the emotional and financial roller coaster you are stepping onto...if I can help you through the process I am happy to!
In fact, I am going to PM you...

[M&Tdoodles]

Thank you for your support Jac..and every one else on here...Will keep you all up to date. Plan on pennhipping Monet soon. Cant wait...to get the ball rolling again...In march our lil pups all go to their homes, then we will be without pups for another year and a half....what will we do.....
haa ahhaa as Tom & I were talking the other night about the same topic , I mentioned we will sleep more...No more getting up at all hours of the night checking on them all, etc...
But then again " Sleep is so over-rated"