Dropping my price

[MaxandMe]

wow thank you Jac

i also wanted to say several specialty centers for HD and other vets along with 2 training places talked to me over the past 2months as to why there is prejudice against labradoodle and goldendoodles.

Seems about a year ago there were quite a few cases of HD and also not so good temperaments along with health issues due to people buying LD's and GDs that the breeders had NOT Tested the breeding parental pair.
these dogs were obtained both locally and out of state at varying prices too.

so for me, i am fully testing Beau in order to stud him out.
if he is not good across the board, testing for health, recognizing temperament and intelligence along with a few other factors are my criteria.-----well then he'll just be a family pet.

I realize we will all have different opinions but breeding two dogs cause they appear to have good health and temperament
well for me i can't do that
... I need to know my dog will not contribute to poor health which some dog and their family might suffer when the dog starts to mature.

TESTING is not a 100% guarantee, rather is my 100% guarantee I have done my best to try to promote good health, temperament and more to be able to breed a dog that was originally intended for service, therapy and lastly a great family pet with intelligence and loving personality.

(now steps down off podium)

[Linz81]

Jac
your information is very much respected AND appreciated. Like I have said before we are VERY new at this and have NOT done all the testing. We have worked VERY closely with our vet and he has advised us every step on what to do, unfortunately he never stressed certain testings and dna testing. I was simply un-informed. We are from a very rural part of the country and our resources are certainly limited. I did do LOTS of research before we began breeding and I can safely ssay I have learned MUCH MUCH more here on these forums in the last week than several months of researching on the internet and talkin to other breeders.
I absilutely LOVE the breed and appreciate every variety of LD. I can tell you this, when my family began researching for our new pet and were considering the LD I was AMAZED at the pricing. There is no way we could have afforded to pay upwards of $2500 for a pet. This does not mean we are not a wonderful family! Our pets are our lives!! They go to work, vacation, family trips, the Lake, the grocery store EVERYWHERE with us. My son is an only child (not by our choosing, by God's) and our pets are his siblings, in fact he lovingly refers to them as that.
There are a lot of families out there who want good quality pets, but can't always afford to pay those prices (especially in our part of the country) in fact when we decided to breed, these families are he ones we were thinking of.
We have sold 1 litter of puppies and speak with those families probably once every 2 months. they all LOVE their pets! Not because they paid big bucks for them, or because they have long pedigrees, but because they are part of their families.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE know I DO NOT want to offend or even disagree with you or any other breeder on the forum by my reply. I have so enjoyed meeting and sharing and talking with the few that I have on here. Anyone who loves labradoodles as much as I do is a friend of mine I just simply felt what I felt in my heart I should share.

[Jac]

Hi Lindsie,
I honestly don't think that we are disagreeing...
As I have said, the price is not the relevant issue. Price will vary based on many things. In fact, I recently found myself placing a full litter of puppies for an adoption fee of $50. This price did not reflect an inferrior puppy, but my desire to find good homes for puppies that were so ready for one on one love and attention.
I agree that the cost of LDs and GDs is whopping! When I began thinking of breeding (to show you how clueless I was) I had placed a $500 deposit on a Australian Multigen puppy and decided that since I was paying $2500 for a dog, I would simply ask the breeder not to spay her and I would breed her so that we could make more affordable puppies available to families like us.
Wrong! When I mentioned this, she informed me that a breeding female would cost $18000! Yikes! I gave up my $500 deposit and searched until I found a breeder who would work with us. We purchased Bayley and Lexie from that breeder and began our research.
Because there were some new breeders who had jumped through the same hoops I was jumping through, they offered to help educate me. I will forever be grateful to them.
Just because I test my dogs and provide what I believe are high quality puppies, does not mean that I charge an enormous price. When I can, I do charge $1800 per puppy. And, when I feel it is the right thing to do, I donate a puppy to selected families.
In a recent situation, for the good of my pups, I parted with them for a small fee that (combined) did not come close to paying for even a week's worth of food.
My point is that if we are looking solely at price and not quality standards, we will perpetuate a back yard breeder system that will eventually cost us our reputations and set our breed back several decades.
I can't tell you how often my husband and I talk about our happiness at providing these great dogs to families...and our greatest joy comes from our donations. Still, we refuse to skimp on quality standards. Just because we discount and donate puppies does not mean that we can be careless in our breeding standards. The puppies and the families deserve our greatest care in selecting and testing our parent breeds.
Most families will never have a problem with puppy health, but the ones that do present heartbreaking tales. It just isn't worth the gamble.
You will understand this more, unfortunately, as your litters become more numerous. You will have, as we all have, puppies who don't make it. I once spent $11,000 to keep an 8 week old puppy alive after she suffered cardiac arrest during her early spaying. I still had to let her little spirit go...it was the most gut wrenching thing I have endured. It was also a huge financial blow.
So, imagine...if you have a 2 year warranty and you are selling puppies from untested parents and you get, say, 3 pups with severe hip problems...well, you not only have to cover costs for the puppies but you have to notify all of your puppy owners that you have produced pups with hip problems...and you would probably have to pay for them to have their pups tested...costing you around $300-400 per puppy. Oh, you could go on and keep it from them if you wanted...but I don't think you would do that. And, what if these puppies were bred? Your legal liability could reach to any puppies produced from your line. It could bankrupt you. I am not being dramatic...this happens. Not often, thank goodness, but it does indeed happen.
These happy families you talk about may turn on you in a heartbeat...especially if they are paying huge vet bills and watching their beloved pet suffer. Then, they will not be so supportive. They may even file legal action.
So, you see, it is not a simple matter of providing inexpensive puppies to good families. I wish it were. Nothing would make me happier...but there are long term ramifications of breeding. A lifetime of misery for a puppy and a family could be in the mix. It is not really an easy business to be in. It certainly is not one to expect to make much profit on.
We have been breeding for 3 years now. We have taken a loss of over $50,000 so far. We have brought in less than a third of that, even selling some puppies for $1800.

[Jac]

Oh, Lindsie, I wante do add that I understand that you have been doing all that you know how to do, you have consulted with your vet and are doing your best to make proper breeding decisions.
My loooooong comments are merely there for you to consider...they are not meant to be in any way a defamation on your sincerity or your love of your dogs. I can tell that you truly do love your dogs. In fact, my comments are aimed at everyone who might be contemplating breeding as well as those who are already breeders.
So, please do not take this as a personal attack...but as a friendly conversation, tossing out thoughts and reasoning...I value your comments and insight!

[Linz81]

Of course Jac, I promise none taken. I am honestly in complete admiration and total respect!! NOTHING is worth doing, if not not done correctly and responsibly. I have gained alot of knowledge and insight. My girls are scheduled for testing on the 18th, however my vet was VERY VERY against early de-sexing (I understand this is a touchy subject) and would not even do it. We have decided to put something about a spay/nueter clause in our contract. IF we in fact decide to breed Lea again. Thank you so very much for ALL the information!!!

[River Rat]

Jacque, I think your long, thoughtful discussions on breeding and what's involved should be placed up top as a sticky in the breeders' section. They could be a wake-up call to others contemplating breeding and also an invaluable guide to those who want to try it. It's so important to "spread the gospel" about what breeding should be all about.

The girl who grooms Chouette has talked about the hyper and ill-mannered labradoodles she works with in the area, and they give the mix a bad name. But they're doubtless products of people who said, "Let's breed your lab with my poodle and take advantage of this new designer-dog fad." With so many unwanted dogs out there, it's such a careless and thoughtless way to proceed! True aficionados of the doodles don't behave that way, as we on this forum know from experience!

Leslie

[gene]

I second Leslie on that! And btw....
WELCOME BACK JAC!!

[Jac]

Hey, thanks everyone!
You can tell I have been away too long...because my posts are longer than ever! LOL
I have missed you!
I am very glad to see so many new names and faces. The forum is really picking up speed. I am glad because this really is a great forum, thanks to all of you!