Breeder Question

[Jac]

Hi everyone, Bayley is having pups soon...yaaaay! (The first part of April.)
What I want to know is what is the best day to have her x-rayed to see how many pups are in there?
We only did ultrasound on Lexie and I wished that I would have known for sure how many puppies to expect, just to be sure all were delivered...so I do want to go ahead with Bayley.
We had the ultrasound this week and I saw quite a few wiggly babies! So fun!!
My vet has her scheduled on the 22nd (next Wed.) but I don't want to do this too early...don't want to harm the puppies.
And, when you are counting the days...do you start with the first tie or the last tie? (For instance, is day 57 counted from day one tie or the last tie?)
I know that I should have this info already...but Lexie's litter threw me and I want to be prepared! I have been doing a LOT of reading and preparing, but the material I read talks about 63 days from the date of ovulation...but when you don't know that date, what is the rule of thumb for starting the countdown?
Thanks so much!

[gracielou]

Jac,

Sometimes it depends on the vet mine says 45 days. Ask Dixie and she won't agree with that, tried and and they couldn't tell she can explain it better her or di. I was going to do one but Lucy is so close now I figure we'll wait and be surprised, she could go anytime now. I will be sending out pics of course to anyone who wants one.

[Jac]

Oh, I am so glad that I am not the only one confused with the timing issues! I keep reading about it and I have this little chart...but I never know when to start the count. I know that some breeders test progesterone (sp?) and that you can tell when the dog will ovulate by that test...but I don't have the know-how yet to do that...so I just keep guessing.
Please do let me know when your pups come! I always love to hear about new litters...especially since we have enjoyed (and fretted over) our first litter.
And, of course, I want to see pictures!!!
I plan to get Bay x-rayed on this Wednesday. I hate to put her through it, but I really will feel better knowing how many pups to expect with her...she is much smaller than Lexie was and I don't want her to have problems that we are not aware of.
It is such a scary time! And an exciting time!

[gracielou]

I know we can't asvertise our litters here but I will be sending pics out to all who want to see them so your get some for sure. Same here send me Bailey's once she has hers.

[dixiedi]

Jac, I'm so excited for you I'm so sorry I missed this post, I've been preoccupied lately and haven't been on much. You count 57 days from the first tie, that is the earliest you can have puppies. Now I am a die hard temperature taker at this point. On the 57th day, I start taking her temperature, morning, noon and evening. Once the temperature drops below 99 (has to drop below 99), she is in labor and you will have puppies within 36 hrs. This has never failed me and I swear by it. If I get a reading below 99, I will take her temp again just to make sure it is a correct reading. Then I monitor my female every 2 hrs until labor begins and then of course, I'm right there in the whelping box with her. This drop in temperature can happen very quickly and is easy to miss but the more experienced you get with it, the better you are. For example, her normal temp right before delivery will run anywhere from 100.0 to 101.5 and will go back and forth, then it will drop below 100 and could go down to 99.5 then shoot back up to 100.5 or whatever. Once it starts dropping down to 99.5 or so, I will check her temperature like every 2 hrs (I told you I'm a fanatic with this temp thing ) Anyway, I think it is kinda fun and it is really nice to have a window of when to expect the puppies. Also, if momma hasn't started delivering the pups within 36 hrs of this drop, there is a problem and you need to get her to the vet.

Sorry, I'm no help on what day is best for x-rays. I can tell you the best day for palpating but I don't have a clue as for x-rays. Wishing you and Bayley good luck and I can't wait to hear what the x-ray shows

[Maureen]

Good morning, all!
Jac, once again we're in this together, with our litters coming close to each other! (Yankee's due around 4/8 )

Diane was really detailed about the temp/labor. ( way to go Di! ) The rule of thumb on those whelping charts is delivery comes 63 days from the first tie. Di, I'm picturing you chasing your girls from behind with a thermometer in your hand! I guess I wait for that VIOLENT nesting they start doing in my closet or under the kids' beds and then I know it won't be long. Anyway, I've heard of healthy pups born on Day 59 and I think that's cuz 57-59 days is absolutely necessary and the dam doesn't necessarily ovulate on the same day she's ready to stand, ya know? Last time Fancy only tied twice within a 24 hr period, so it was interesting to see how close it was, at 61days. This time Yankee tied just ONCE so I will be tracking her gestation time from there as well.

I don't have the luxury of getting x-rays or sonigrams of our girls because frankly they're just too darn expensive here in Denver! Shoot, the bloodtest is over $100 so my hubby points out that we can wait and be surprised for FREE!

As for counting the puppies, even an x-ray depends on a vet seeing them all, and not missing one behind something, right? I guess I don't have confidence in those tests to be that conclusive as to not miscount 1 puppy more or less, so I wouldn't take the test as that accurate.
Do you give your girls an oxytocin shot within 24hrs of their last-delivered pup? I'm a big believer in that to make sure the uterus has contracted and expelled all puppy-tissues.

I know this might not really sound helpful but you WILL learn to palpate and know when your girls are really "done". Last time I was able to estimate correctly how many more Fancy had coming, (2) before she delivered her last one....and it wasn't like I knew I was right beforehand, but I just didn't realize how much I was learning with each litter. know what I mean? The good thing about that was it clued me in that when she only had one more before her tummy felt really concave, it clued me in that there was a little guy born out in the snow.

Does that help? What would be Bayley's due date if you count 63 days from first tie?

[dixiedi]

Hi Maureen, isn't it funny how we all prepare for our litters. My females are so use to getting their temps taken now they know what is coming when they see thermometer in hand They just look at me like "Here we go again" and they just stand there, poor girls

I have tried palpating my females but I just can't get the feel of that. I am waiting as I write this on a phone call from Linda saying that Lucy is getting ready to have her pups. Her temp dropped yesterday. I'm going to head that way to be moral support and just because I really want to be there when my "Archie" is born. Good luck with your litters guys, it is very exciting, I don't care how many litters you have, it never gets old

[Jac]

Hey, thanks you all!
Good luck Linda! I can't wait to hear the news! It doesn't matter how many puppies we bring into this world, every one is precious.
You are so right, Maureen, I learned a lot from Lexie's litter...and I am sure that there will be a huge learning curve in this one. How cool that we are doing this together agiain! Best wishes to you and to Yankee!
I sure do wish that I had a Diane nearby...it would be so nice to have someone to share this with.
I hope that at least my hubby will be home this time. Last time, he was at the airport, getting Rosie (our GD) from the plane! Soooo, he comes home all excited for me to meet her, said she was such a lovely dog and I said, "Sorry...not now...I have pups coming!" (I had just delivered the second one, and knew that he wouldn't make it so I was very worried then.)
So, this time, I hope that Dave will be here...plus I have a wonderful dog sitter/walker and she used to work for my vet, she is planning on being here with us...so if either Dave or I will be gone, Jamie can step in. (Although I don't want to miss it!)
I do know what you mean about temps, Di...I took Lexie's temp a lot...but she dropped her temp at about 3 days before! Then it went up again, then down again...she was nesting for all of those days too...she just kept me guessing! (Easy to do when a person is clueless!)
No, I can't get any oxytocin...my vet won't give me any and I don't know any other vet to check with.
Yep, the x-rays are expensive, but I worry so much about Bayley being so small...I had to know at least as much as I could know. I realize it is all guesswork!
Well, we get the x-ray in an hour, so I'll let you know!
Here's to all of us having healthy, beautiful, happy litters!
Thanks for all of your help, guys...I really treasure your friendship.

[gracielou]

It's funny because I will call anyone I think might be awake depending on what time of the night it is. I hate it when it is really late and I can't share with anyone. I hope Lucy goes tonight when di's here that will be great to share that with someone.

[Maureen]

oooh, Linda I hope you girls have good healthy babies tonight! Remind me who is the dad with Lucy? I'm like you...between puppies I'm thinking "WHO can I call? This is so exciting!"

Jac, it would be great to have "a Diane" nearby I know! I hope to build a better friendship with Cass Linder (Linder Labradoodles) and I owe her AT LEAST a stud fee if Yankee has a healthy litter, since she saved the day with her boy Thor.

[Jac]

Hey, Linda, remember...I am out here on the left coast...our time is not as late as yours! Call any time!

Good luck tonight...I'll be thinking of you!

Maureen, that is really nice that you have someone so close!

Bayley has 6 babies in there!! They look so tiny...I don't know how I could be off very far in my calculations, but if they don't grow really fast, they will be tiiiiny babies! It is so fun to see the little circles for skulls and then the spines and rib cages...I just love them so much already!

Bay is really blossoming...it is so cute!

[Molly]

congrats on the puppys Jac!

[gracielou]

Congrats on your puppies Jac!! This is Di tuning in at Linda's house. Still no puppies I sure was hoping she would go last night, the temp thing is usually a sure sign, go figure I will have to head for home around 10:30 or so unless my hubby is sent home from work, then I can hang out a little longer. We got snow last night and my hubby is a heavy equipment operator so he may not be working today and will be able to feed puppies for me. We'll keep you all posted, thanks for being there

[Jac]

Thanks Terri Lynn!

Diane, I was hoping to tune in and find a puppy announcement! Dang...we are all on pins and needles here.

Lexie's temp kept me guessing...everyone thought she would deliver because her temp went down...then it would go up....then down....then up....*sigh*...finally, when she started panting heavily all afternoon, I knew that the time was near. Sure enough, that was our sign.

It is strange how different dogs can have different biological triggers.

I'll be looking for the news...praying for a healthy litter, and a restful day/night for you all!

[Maureen]

panting! Jac that cracks me up cuz we have joked about whether our dogs have been to LaMaze classes! With our old Lab Bessie we could actually watch the pre-labor contractions she would have in the last 24 hrs. They were accompanied by that panting. You are right, every dog is different...Fancy's up/down temps sorta burned me out on the temp thing.

Linda how's your girl this afternoon??? It's daytime you can call anytime!