Puppies! Coat Questions - PICTURES!!

[bree jwh]

Kangas mom our english choc lab and Kris' parti factored sable brindle with saddle markings, he throws parti in litters alot I hope we get some partis out of those lines. I kept 4 out of this years litter, he throws really small 35-45 pound at maturity. I love that to help me in reducing size of my doodles, alot is on the line for next year. I also kept one of Kangas sisters but I really will not mind soilds if I can get the sizes I want with the true doodle coat (not much poodle) true mini F1bs reduced naturally by the Moyens. They have just the nicest personality, they came from Sue Greely in CA

[Maureen]

I have a friend with a degree in genetics, and she has taught me a lot! But she says we still just don't know enough about how, exactly, we get partis. For example, I have a parti factored male (parti poodle dam) , and bred him to my parti-factored female (parti sire) and we got NO partis this time! But both also carry phantom, and this time we got 2 phantoms, out of 4 puppies! Last time we got 1 part, 1 phantom, so that litter proved both carry both.


If you got a dog from a parti poodle and an English Lab, all puppies in the litter would carry the parti factor. But if you got a puppy from a parti-factored poodle, and an English Lab, I'm afraid there's a 50/50 chance your Doodle did not get the part factor that his parent throws. I'm thinking that would explain Kanga not having any partis....altho genetics is, as I said, a real puzzle and I think it will be forever, to some extent.

does this make sense?

[dreamer728]

we're getting one of Kanga's puppies - the light blue ribbon girl - would she be considered a parti or are her markings more of a brown tuxedo?

[Maureen]

She's a CUTIE-PIE!!!

She looks like a mismark.....or abstract..... with a "true" tuxedo the white goes all the way down the abdomen

Most people don't know that is the standard for a tuxedo puppy, but that's what I was told by a Poodle Breeder, when I tried to call my mismark puppy a tuxedo.

I appreciate the education I get from Poodle breeders, so thanks for asking! I'm glad to pass along what I've been told.

I probably have pictures of tuxedos, because a friend of mine had several in her litter!

but for the sake of ease, and cuz I'm a little tired from all the Turkey how about if I give you a link to a Poodle breeder's site with several Tuxedos on there.....you can see the white goes all the way down to their tummy!

here ya go: http://www.homestead.com/kitsuepoodles/ReadyPups.html

[bree jwh]

Tuxedos usually have a band of white around their middle across their backs to give a shirt apearance to them an abstract have blazes and or white on the chest[/img]

[dreamer728]

i see it now - she has just the front ruffle - either way she's adorable and I can't wait to get her!

[Maureen]

white ruffle!!! That's exactly how I see my mismark/abstract girl! In fact (shes a poodle) we have left her white fur longer than the rest to give that ruffle-ly appearance!

good luck waiting....she sure is a cutie-pie!

[JonathonD]

Oh - Of course, Bree, I always ask and want your opinion! This was just another way to show off the pups! I know you're teasing I still haven't decided who to keep though... right now I'm down to five and I love them all.

The pups are doing great! The personalities are really starting to show through, I'm amazed at how much they start to really differ about this age (four weeks). I've noticed it more now than ever before.

How's yours doing Maureen? Any updated pictures of that brindle?

[JonathonD]

Originally Posted by Maureen

I do disagree that you have a black phantom puppy, since the lighter color is only on the toes, not up the legs.

This picture shows the phantom I was referring to. It's a tannish color up his legs - I wasn't referring to the fact that he had white toes - I think it's pretty obvious that's not what a phantom pattern is. If you look around you'll see phantoms starting like this also. I've seen a few.

[daissyj]

I'm just now reading this post, but Maureen....I have a litter of apricot/reds and they all have white on the underneath of their paws. Only one puppy has a cute little white dot on her head and paw. Does this mean a color change? I didn't know that, but thought I would ask. I'm sure they won't change much since both parents are reds, but had to check anyway. Thanks for any of your wonderful insight that you can give me!

[Maureen]

jon, it looks like this puppy DOES have the phantom markings, somewhat, so I was mistaken. In the first pictures I saw I believe he was curled around and his chest wasn't as visible, right?

His legs aren't distinctly "phantomish" but with the lighter color mixed fur on his legs and the lateral patch on his chest it looks like he has that tendency
Here's a phantom poodle with clear markings:


and here's a pic of one of our former puppies - I just noticed the amount of lighter fur here on the face of "Tanner" which is similar to your pup. Does your black puppy (above) have lighter eyebrows too? I love those!



Did you keep any of your litter? Are you getting grown up pictures back from the new owners?

Julie, typically the white fur between the pads can mean that there will be some dilution of the color of the puppy's coat, as in the case of puppies being born black and clearing to blue, or browns lightening to cafe. I don't have any experience with reds! sorry, but I guess I would assume the same prinicipal can be present, but I know that even that prediction is subject to nature doing its own thing. sorry!

[MaxandMe]

Maureen...to date the 'clear reds" or 'gun dog"reds my breeder has had haven't faded or shown other colors
they start out a muddy brownish red color and change to clear red by 8 to 10 weeks old ...and tend to deepen their red color

whereas the golden/reds have changed with cream mixtures and/or highlights coming out
and Peanut is cream/apricot and white...i am going tolet her coat fully grown out and take pics again.

i am trying to document my breeders last 2 litters..as i have friends with Beau and Peanut's siblings....and others contact my breeder and send pictures.

Max is the only Black one to-date that hasn't silvered

and TANNER is gorgeous...i'd love to see how he looks as he ages

[lmtoth2]

Maureen...to date the 'clear reds" or 'gun dog"reds my breeder has had haven't faded or shown other colors
they start out a muddy brownish red color and change to clear red by 8 to 10 weeks old ...and tend to deepen their red color

whereas the golden/reds have changed with cream mixtures and/or highlights coming out
and Peanut is cream/apricot and white...i am going tolet her coat fully grown out and take pics again.

i am trying to document my breeders last 2 litters..as i have friends with Beau and Peanut's siblings....and others contact my breeder and send pictures.

Max is the only Black one to-date that hasn't silvered

and TANNER is gorgeous...i'd love to see how he looks as he ages

Hey Annmarie - does your breeder remember if Kirby was very red when he was born or was he a tanish red? I'm just curious Certain parts of him (ears/tail) are quite red and his body has blonde, tan/brown and red mixed in...

Maureen - Tanner is so cute! I remember when he was born - if you have more photos please post them