Mystery Solved!

[Maureen]

Hi, I just got the email attachment...it's official!
Fancy has BBEE coloring: BLACK. period.

Sheba, is BbEe...that is she carries ALL colors!

So, it's as I suspected with Fancy, since her breeding with a male who's probably bbee produced BLACK/blue/silver pups....but it's a little better than I expected with Sheba, in that the report says she is a carrier of BbEe carries the black and brown genes and
carries the cream-white-red-apricot gene


one other thing: Our friend Bryan WAS EXACTLY RIGHT with his estimate!

[Jac]

You know, I hope to someday understand what you just wrote!

All I know is that Fancy is black...that she carries black. Period. (That part I understood.)

And, I have tried to study this stuff and I feel like ending with a rousing rendition of..."and a partridge in a pear treeeeeee!"

[Maureen]

Jac, that's SO DARN FUNNY!!!

Yeah, I can't go any farther myself. Something about how brown has no effect on black, or red. WHATEVER!!!

anyway, the guessing is over. that's the good news.

but thanks for the laugh!

[gracielou]

One thing I do understand is black is dominant and if they carry that you will have some black pups!! As far as the rest I have know clue.

[dixiedi]

Jac, once again you have given me a chuckle I'm in the same boat, this color stuff just goes over my head.

I did understand that our friend Bryan was "right on", way ta go Bryan

[angelakj]

I'm up late - can't sleep and just surfing through all the forums. I'm not a breeder but I have a Microbiology degree and I understand what you're talking about. If you want to know feel free to ask. To see the crosses you make a grid four across and four down. One parent on top one parent down. Two letters per box. Eggs and sperm carry half of the parent's genetic information so each egg/sperm will carry one gene for each color - one "B" and one "E". It's like an office football score card - match them up one from the top and one from the side. This is the edit of the correct way to do it. Fancy is BBEE and the stud is bbee. The four possible combos in the boxes across the top are BE,BE,BE,BE and the four possible combos on the side for the stud are be,be,be,be. You get sixteen possibilities. In this case the only possibilities are BbEe. All the puppies will be BbEe only and that is a puppy with dominant black and dominant E genes. Since black is a dominant color it would be expressed most with some influence from E to give a shade variation. If you breed a BbEe dog with a bbee the combos across the top are (BE,bE,Be,be) and the ones down the side are (be,be,be,be). The sixteen results are BbEe-4, Bbee-4, bbEe-4, bbee-4. I think that's right - it's been a while

[angelakj]

edited the top post

[Jac]

Hey, Angela, thanks for trying! I REALLY do want to understand this...and I love the grid idea. I expect my dogs to get their DNA testing for colors back any day...so I'll make a grid and see what it says! (Although we just had a litter, so I pretty well know what colors they carry...it is still fun!)

[angelakj]

Ok - I'm up. Last night I was in a fog from my wine - but a happy fog! When you have four color options the grid is made up of four sets of possible combinations. So actually, when you cross BbEe - the combos across the top would be (BE, bE, Be, be ). The grid works the same way but you get color combinations of four letters as results in the boxes not two. Also b is recessive black and mixed with E or e would probably give you the brown. I just don't know enough about what those colors are and what the combination colors are. For instance - What does a bbEe dog look like - what color is that. If someone wants to list them for me I should be able to help you more. This is stuff I learned a long time ago but it's coming back now. I'll run the sample crosses correctly again and edit the above post if I can this morning.

[angelakj]

Oh one more thing. The results are possibilities per puppy. Every egg/sperm combination has a 1/16 chance of being whatever. With the BBEE and bbee cross - the puppies have a 100% chance of being BbEe. The BbEe and bbee cross - the puppies EACH have a 25% chance of being BbEe, 25% chance of being Bbee, 25% chance of being bbEe and 25% chance of being bbee. Depending on how the eggs and sperm float around you could get a litter of 100% bbee. The crosses just show you what possible combos you could get and at what chance percentages could happen.

[Maureen]

Angela, welcome, and thanks for all your help!
www.vetgen.com is the company in Ann Arbor MI who tests the color DNA and they have exactly this kind of grid on their site...so you are exactly right!

I have a girl who has BbEe colors (black, brown, yellow, with yellow containing reds, creams and all colors in between) and I'm looking for a bbee boy to buy for her breeding....and then the PARTI gene isn't indicated in the b's and e's so that's a whole other factor!

Meanwhile I have a yellow boy who's Bbee, so he carries the black, yellow, and brown colors, so he's a good candidate for breeding to my BbEe girl, and we should get 1/2 yellows.

I hope this conversation helps others! I heartily support the small investment of the 'chromagene' test, cuz it has eliminated my suspense on our girls. I think I will continue to purchase this test prior to purchasing any non-chocolate doodles I want to use for breeding.

[wannadoodle]

Maureen, Just read your results...congrats, I think. Then I made the mistake of reading the whole post. Holy cow. All I know, after much deliberation, with the horses a black mare and a cremello stud usually produce a very ugly light black colt. I have studied this stuff too and find it fascinating, but I just can't get it right. If, however, anyone is in the market for very ugly light black colts, we are well blessed with them

[dixiedi]

Your post is too funny LeeBeth I know I will never get this color thing down. I get so confused. My brain just isn't big enough to absorb all of this BbEe, etc. stuff

[Maureen]

crack me up! LeeBeth, I feel your pain!

somehow we were thrilled with the 3 mom-dogs we have, and yet they are all Blacks! (black family, anyway) When we got our first poodle I specifically and deliberately didn't want a white/cream.... I still prefer the yellows and caramels, personally.... but another chocolate in our house would've been nice! sigh. kinda like the cremelo x black mare thing.... The really great news is that Sheba and Yankee do carry chocolates, and Sheba carries yellow AND chocolate, so I'm excited to see if either of those girls are having babies in 6-9wks.

I try really hard to NOT glaze over with the color thing, but I usually fake it! (shhhhhh, don't tell!) I think I'm doing good to know that the white fur between the pads usually means gray-to-silver!

[Jac]

Loved your contribution, LeeBeth...and Angela, you are pretty darned good at this! (You too, Maureen!)
Diane and I seem to be on the same page...and I think that LeeBeth is there with us!
What I found out, after I got my VetGen results is that I will never have chocolate puppies because Chase's genes are recessive (boo hoo hoo) and my girls' black genes are obsessive, er, I mean dominant.
But the thing that I find really interesting is that the dilute gene was not even mentioned in the VetGen results and that is really what I wanted to know, how many of my puppies will be silver? Can they ever be blue? (According to Helene, the Labradoodles can't be blue because the blue gene is never carried in Labs.)
I did get the percentage of colors that VetGen said I would get, 2/3 black and 1/3 cream (red, or apricot) but all of the black puppies, except for one so far, is turning silver. (yippee!)
So, I am still as confused as ever. Not surprising!