OFA "Fair" in the middle of a heat cycle...

[Linz81]

Hello Hello!
I have been away for a while, hope everyone is doing great!
I HIGHLY value the experience and knowledge of those on this site and need some feedback.
This summer I had my wonderful babies Mudd and Layla tested: OFA, InGen, CERF and bred them. Mudd (F1B Labradoodle) scored OFA good, but vet said IF I could get a few lbs off of him and re-do his X-rays I would probably get an Excellent. My female Goldendoodle (F1B) we X-rayed her in the middle of a full on heat cycle! Vet said she would more than likely score "good" so I bred them. Well...got OFA results in and she only scored a Fair I am SOOOOO disappointed! The two of them have an amazing litter of North American Retreivers and they are BOTH such wonderful dogs and passed everything else with flying colors!
These scores are her Pre-lim scores, as she will not be 2 until 12-5-09. My delima is do I wait and re-test her after she weigns the litter or have her fixed? Is a Good and Fair breeding OK? I have heard that sometimes breeding 2 excellent is not as good. I really respect any feedback I can get here! Thanks guys!!

[Jac]

Linz, I'm going to send you a PM...

[Maureen]

Hey, Lindsie, good to see you again! Can you believe I was just checking out your site yesterday, and here you are!

About the x-ray during estrus...well, we accidentally had Truffle's OFA pre-lim done while she was coming into heat and her hips were graded "Excellent" by OFA. So I don't think you have to worry about that, however I have been told by our vet that FAIR is perfectly fine for breeding. OFA says so too.

If you have bred your girl I would wait a while after puppies are weaned before getting a full OFA grade, but yes, I think you would be smart to double check her hips at 2-3yrs old, preferably before breeding her again. That's just my 2¢ but I hope it helps.

[Jac]

Good advice Maureen.
I am not fond of breeding a dog with fair hips, but I do know that it is done.
No sense in beating yourself up over this...as Maureen said, breeders often use fair scores...I am really glad that you are testing.

[Maureen]

Originally Posted by Jac

Good advice Maureen.
I am not fond of breeding a dog with fair hips, but I do know that it is done.

Jac, I am evolving in my thinking, I believe. If hips are either good enough for breeding or not, then perhaps there is actually a gene to isolate, like vWD, or PRA, and the dogs are either CLear, Carriers, or Affected.
Now, we don't have that gene isolated yet...but we all know that dysplastic dogs have come from parents graded "Excellent" as well as from those graded "Fair". So if that is the case, then the rest is frosting for the cake I think. We just have more to learn, don't we?

[Jac]

Yes, good points...I actually wrote quite a long PM to Lindsey and that is one thing that I mentioned...that a fair score does not mean HD. That even with a fair score that doesn't mean you will see HD. It is a crap shoot...and I do think that environmental things are more involved that most people believe.

[Linz81]

So Maureen you think the estrus cycle factor is not that important? Her ball and sockets were incredibly smooth and alligned, I was assuming the Fair grading was because she was loose because of being in heat and it was the "dog days" of summer and they pretty much slept the day away haha! I plan on exercising her and Mudd really well this Spring, as I my self have a baby due in March and will be needing a running and swimming partner to get all of MY baby weight off! She was a very strange pregnant pooch, I never actually saw them breed and she didnt even look pregnant until a week and half before they were born! I was a nerveous wreck when we went for an ultrasound because he said yep...and they will be here soon!!

[KingstonTodd]

Are the gradings relative to the pool they are being compared to (percentile rank)? or are they an absolute assesment of anatomy? If they are percentile based, then would fair be 50th percentile? Maybe that is the Pennhip was of reporting, but it may be worth doing for your piece of mind and before planning to bred her again. A "fair" could work out to 50th percentile and if you breed to a higher graded score (like an 80+) then the combination would probably be OK. Mating two low scores or two "fairs" together may be risking too much. If fair in an absolute assesment of anatomy, as in there is something wrong in the hip limiting the grade to fair and not a better evaluation, I would ask what exactly held the score back, and look to see if that aspect of the hip assesment is great or average in the other breeding pair.

[Linz81]

It is my understanding that that OFA doesn't have percentiles. She was bred with my male who scored Good, but I do plan on re-testing him as well because he had a little extra weight on him at the time the Xrays were done.

[KingstonTodd]

Might be worth doing Pennhip for the retest to get numbers and they do the analysis slightly differently so if you are testing again it might be worth it to get a second opinion in a different way.

[Linz81]

Is PennHip done similiar, as in exrays that you send in? I tried researching it a little last night and was not able to find very much. I am definitely going to do this, just need to know if my vet can or am I going to have to go elsewhere. With CERF there was only 1 vet in the four surrounding states, but he happened to have an office that was 60 miles from home...lucky for me I live in a remote area of Eastern Arkansas.

[KingstonTodd]

PennHip is also done by x-rays that you send in but I think they are taken in a very specific way so you may have to ask around for a "PennHip certified" vet to take the x-ray. We only have on in our area that does it.