LATEST UPDATE/NEWS from Ingen Pawsitive ID

[KingstonTodd]

Maybe not illegal, thats for a judge to decide. But ethically, stealing a patent, and moving the operation offshore, but still selling it where the patent applies is an ethical (and legal) grey area.

Interesting read:

http://patentdocs.typepad.com/files/optigen-v-ig.pdf

[Jac]

Well, I don't know that I'd jump to any conclusion about what is legal OR ethical...all of that is really up to the courts to decide.
Just because a case is filed, does not mean that the claim is accurate or founded. And, just because someone is defending a claim does not mean he or she did something wrong.
You are absolutely right...that is for the courts to decide.
If it IS illegal, it will also be unethical to have acted in the way that they did...BUT if it is found to be legal, then they have every right to conduct their business, and it would also be ethical to use good business judgment...so it is all linked...and until the courts decide, we are left to speculate.
The one thing I learned in law school, and I learned it well, is that you can make a good case for both sides and you can argue both sides. A good attorney will be an advocate for their client...and then it is up to the attorney to support their claim with evidence sufficient to convince the court or the jury that their position is right...still, even once decided, many cases are overturned by a higher court...it all hinges on the persuasiveness of the case and evidence presented...not on the claims made by either side.
It will be interesting to watch this unfold...but the fact that the court has not yet issued an injunction against PID, leaves room to wonder why...(an injunction is an order to stop someone from acting and further inflicting "harm" to the other party...and usually a temporary injunction is granted, if warranted, pending a hearing on the matter of a permanent injunction.)

[M&Tdoodles]

....so after Jac and Todd did sufficient research into testing methods,protocls, ethical satandards sought after...they both had decided to do further testing on their breeding stock with....which company would they turn to in the future? That is the question.....stay tuned...

[M&Tdoodles]

Well .....hmmmmm no answer yet?
I am confused....do not which Co. to turn to. Did you 2 come with a Co. to do DNA testing with ?

[Jac]

Ingen still offers testing and since I have prepaid for tests, I will use Ingen until the prepaid testing is done. Then, I will look around.
One thing that is important is that all of the tests run by Ingen do not apply to Doodles. Many are for other breeds. So I will focus on the necessary testing, vWD, PRA/PRCD for Doodles and I will decide which is the best value for the most accurate testing. There are a few companies to consider.

[Lucky Me]

I'm still waiting to hear the results of the gal on the other forum.
About a month and a half ago, she said that she had a conflicting DNA PRA report.
She had the parents tested by Optigen in May 2007.
One of their pups had tested positive for PRA by Ingen.

[KingstonTodd]

My next pup to test is only 7 weeks old, so I am in a wait and see what others figure out stage. If they come out that ingen does not correspond to other companies results, then I will have to retest Hershey. Urrh , I hope not.

[M&Tdoodles]

Lucky Me,
I do not know which forum you are referring to but let me get this straight...That dog was "CLEARED" of PRA but then INGEN picked up a problem?
Is this correct? Could you please put up the url to the site forum you are talking about ?

If true then I will stay with Ingen formerly known as Pawsitive ID. This si where I have done 4 other dogs so far ....Ill just go with Pra and VWd...That much I can afford x 3 dogs ..yikes this adds up quickly....

[Jac]

They do have other tests that are good...narcoplexy and exercise induced prolapse...and I think that once you pay for one, you get a discount on the others. Still much more than we had been paying...but I just recovered from pricing PennHip in the California Bay Area! Yikes...one quote...$621-$977! Luckily, they are not all that out of the world...

I look at mistakes this way...they happen. I don't care what other lab you use...maybe it is the other lab making the mistake...Ingen sort of gets the blame because many of the loyalists to the major DNA companies want to find fault with Ingen because they are such fierce competition.

Human error happens. But we do the best we can do...and I think that when we get the DNA report, such as we get from Ingen, it is pretty good to be able to see how it lines up. We didn't get that with VetGen.

I just really think that it is out of line to charge $150 for one DNA test, then another $75 for each of the others...when we all now know that they can be tested with one swab.

[Lucky Me]

Could you please put up the url to the site forum you are talking about ?

Here it is! http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion. ... gemark=250
I'm not trying to start trouble but it is just that when you hear of this stuff, you start wondering about your own results....and they should be accurate for what you are paying!!
Wow Jacque! It's 2 hrs North of me, but the Pennhip vet only charges $229 total, in Grants Pass, OR.

[Jac]

Thanks, Judy, the vet in Loomis charges $200 and something...including the sedation and he even gave us a disk with the films! So, we have less expensive options, but the family lives in the Bay Area...I think that they would bring her to Loomis if I asked...I was just hoping to not inconvenience them too much...there is one vet that we used, near San Francisco, that charges $400...but if you add patellas and elbows it increases...the Loomis vet didn't charge extra for those. Plus, I really like/trust the vet in Loomis...it is the emergency animal hospital that cared for Chase when he was so sick and all of the vets there (24 hour care facility) are UC Davis grads.

[MaxandMe]

Todd loved your DNA explanation!!!

NOW if INGEN always had test results being in the clear for all dogs then i'd begin to wonder about the company
their "infringment" issue regarding patents........well i am sure teh jury is out on deliberation to the public
as to the real reaon of raising prices, etc

i had Beau tested and in past many questioned INGEN aka pawsitive ID

but if you give several companies a call ask who and what degree do they possses when doing test might be a consolation.
me? if i decided to breed again down the line i am still sticking with INGEN.

Their prices are lower and when i called companies seems INGEN is doing correct practices.
Rick is the owner not the person who conducts tests

[Doodlesville]

Can i clone you both!!!

[M&Tdoodles]

I tested 2 dogs for Pra and the Vwd , sent it to INgen in November, and still have not had the results processed...Their Web site states they had issues recently and were now processing the results ...but wow their turn around time is slow ...almost 2 months have lapsed since the mailing of the swabs..

I tried emailing them but received no answer ( 3 weeks ago)...I really would love to have those results soon....I thought I would mention this to anyone out there considering this company to be informed they are not speedy..so if you have the time send in your tests sooner than later and do not expect a fast response with results.

I have used this company in the past , and had a great experience with them....sigh

[Jac]

There was a recent post about them on the breeders forum...same issue..very frustrated clients. Latest email posted from the Ingen site was that they had been experiencing huge problems but that they were now resolved...they said that they do have a huge backlog but that they should resolve it soon and that new submissions should only take a couple of weeks.
We'll see.
Others say that they are not responsive to calls or emails too...