CLASSIC EXAMPLE of why to wait until 6 wks!!

[Maureen]

That is Blaze, on the right, in the top picture, in his soft silky curls at 2-4 wks old (Sorry, it's not that clear). Then he's the whiter guy with curls in the 2nd pic. But somehow, some way, by 6wks old we were getting flyaway fur, and a "combination" coat. It is not as Labby as most who have the fur that flies off when rubbed. yet here it is! So, his price comes down, rather than have someone think I'm cheating them.

Does everyone wait until 6wks if shedding is an issue? or how do you handle it if someone wants a puppy but wants or expects a fleece coat? This guy could have really fooled me, and I don't think I have EVER seen a fleece-combination like his. It really is softer than most. But here he is now (taken yesterday) and as soft as his coat looks, fur flies off if you rough it up:

[KingstonTodd]

We waited until 6 weeks just for that reason. I would never want someone to feel they picked the wrong puppy and be unhappy with their little dood when waiting a few more weeks could have made a difference.

[Mhyles30]

Beautiful puppies Maureen! I think a puppy from my last litter was the same. I thought his coat will be fleece later on but I noticed his coat was different than the ones I have seen before. My vet won't vaccinate until the 7th week so his coat changed was more obvious then. The lady who picked him didn't want the labby look but not the tight curls either, she said she wanted a coat that was like in the middle of those two. I have visited him when he was 6 months old and his owner mentioned that he sheds a little.


4 weeks old


6 months old

Sorry if the pictures were too big

Take care,
Maila

[MaxandMe]

i'd say you're all right to stick to you guns on waiting till 6 weeks from now on OR telling the prospective doodle parents
that untill weeks you may not be able to 100% honor coat requests?

i know peanut's coat was short, thick, straight and just a few waves at 6 to 9 weeks old
at 12 weeks it totally changed!! she has thick wavy fleece that as an adult coat tries to curl a bit and now can matt

so even if someone gets the coat they want and takes home a doodle at say 8weeks+
the adult coat can change too

max shed untill he was 1.5yrs old now he doesnt ......he WILL SHED in spring though which i promptly call groomer to do
best shot shampoo topped off with Coat KING and end result: seasonal shedding is gone and my allergies are fine


i really feel for you breeders as there is much variance in coats with doodles
YES there is a fair amount of consistency as well but every so often there's that one litter with one or two puppies not quite fitting
into the regular coats you expect

[Jac]

My application points out that there are no promises made regarding shedding or coat quality...that being said, I do try to tell people what the coats will likely be...but you are so right, until they are 6-7 weeks old you can't know. Even then, it can change again...I don't know if you recall Bori...starte out with a coat I thought would be fleece, then he started shedding (yes, at 5 weeks!) and his coat got coarse and unruly! hahahaha...but now, he has beautiful, soft curls and no shed!
Sometimes it is obvious (the Labby ones or the scruffy ones are sometimes easy to see right away) but until they mature and you can "feel" the coat type, you really can't say...and shedding can be with curly coats...while some Labby ones never shed!
I had a family pick out a pup from my current litter, they insisted on female...all the females had Labby looking coats. So, even though they intend to pay full price, I have told them that I will discount due to the coat...they still think her coat looks "lush"...but it is a typical F1 coat! I just feel that I should discount to an F1 price, to be fair.

[cocoandjane]

Jac,

I guess a little discount on price for an F1 coat is in order....though I sure have seen some gorgeous F1"s...
I don't think anyone can truly know what the end result of a doodle's coat will be until they are well over 2 years old.
At least, that seems to be the general opinion of folks I have talked to, including you!
That being said, I sometimes think you can tell early on
who will have a wonderful coat....don't you? By two months old, or older?
One thing I think is fairly true....Labradoodles that do shed some...
tend to shed less and are easier on allergies than other shedding breeds.

I don't see how a breeder can guarantee the coat.

[cocoandjane]

Maureen,

What darling pups!! I think they all look fabulous!! I don't know that the fur flying now means it always will, do you??

and Maila!! I love that look and can tell it is a great coat! may shed a little, but it is wash and wear
and dries fairly quickly ??? I just love it!1

[Doodlesville]

My application points out that there are no promises made regarding shedding or coat quality..

In my experience it doesnt matter if it be 6or 8weeks or older, NO BREEDER can predict coat type, they change too much, from puppyhood to adult, adult coats do not come in until 8-12mths old and you just dont know for sure
if they would have to rehome a dog because the coat didnt come in just right ,heck dont get a doodle!!!!!
if they would love it any less , then they certainly would not get one of my puppies
Im a breeder Not god, i cannot predict the future
why would you discount the price?? the coat is beautiful and normal for a Labradoodle!!!

[Jac]

They are great...no matter what coat they have, they retain their wonderful Doodle qualities and are top-notch pets!

I have had families prefer the flat coat too, even with shed...although most Doodles will never shed as much as a Lab.

Still, as a breeder, I know that the main draw to a Labradoodle is their coat and that people spend the money they do because they are looking for coat quality. Therefore, I believe that it is good business to lower the price to reflect the quality of an F1 rather than an F1B. F1Bs are only more popular than F1 because of their coats...so, if someone can get that same great dog in an F1, why pay F1B prices?

I lower the price, even without them requesting it, to the value of an F1...just because I believe it is the right thing to do...it doesn't mean that I think that the puppy is inferior in any way...only that I believe the coat quality lowers the value to that of an F1. (We are only talking about a $300 discount.)

[KingstonTodd]

Some of the pricing differences are not due to "quality", and I dont like that description anyway. The flatter coated puppies are not inferior and poorer quality puppies. They are still from health tested stock and great temperemnts, and coat is very subjective, soem like curls, some like wave, some like flat, so who's to say which one is better "quality". I think of it as more supply and demand. There are more F1's on the market, so they have to cost less than F1b's which are somewaht more rare (not as much as they used to be). And accordingly, multigens are more pricey, not because they are better quality, but just because there are fewer breeders producing them. So if you have an F1b that looks like an F1, I agree that maybe you should price it accordingly not due to a difference in quality but just because the buyers that would be happy with that coat can also choose from the large pool of F1's as well. JMHO.

[Maureen]

Originally Posted by KingstonTodd

So if you have an F1b that looks like an F1, I agree that maybe you shoulkd price it accordingly not due to a difference in quality but just because the buyers that would be happy with that coat can also choose from the large pool of F1's as well. JMHO.

Good point Todd, and you are right. There is NO DIFFERENCE in the quality of our puppies, based on coat. But there is a difference in the pricing of ANY low-shed dog - bishon, schnauzer, poodle - and the pricing of pet quality Retrievers. And there is a difference in the generations and the connotation of their coats in their respective generations.
so as you suggest, the pricing for our f1-type coated puppies is different from the pricing of the f1b-type coats. (fleece/wool)
And it is true that there is NO WAY, as Nancy suggests, that we can predict the coats in the future!

[OLIVER DOODLE]

Okay Maureen, I have nothing to say about the coats as I haven't a clue about these things. Just wanted to say thanks for the cute puppy picture fix. They are all wonderful!