Vaccines

[Doodlesville]

I do I only use the Progard5 way on pups nothing with lepto or corona in it and have Never had any type of a reaction
In fact i have used this for so long with such great results that i will not use anything else ever
this is the only vaccine that covers the new strain of parvo according to a vet i spoke with

dont vaccinate to early it does no good,
vaccinating to early diminishes the antibodies the mother provides, just keep environment clean, limit visits from outside sources and you shouldn't have a problem

i start pups at 6weeks old, then at 9weeks, then at 12weeks,, that is all you need

[Jac]

Hi Cathy,
I don't use the Proguard brand (but may change), I have always used Fort Dodge (Duramune). Nancy has advised against Fort Dodge and I plan to switch but I had a package of viles left so I'll be switching...I did check the web and you are correct that the manufacturer says that you can give the shot as early as 4 weeks.

Canine Parvovirus Vaccine (MLV)
(Intervet) Give 1 ml IM or SQ. Initial vaccination may be given at 4 weeks of age with a booster given every 3-4 weeks until the 12th week of age. Dogs over 12 weeks of age should initially receive 2 doses 3-4 weeks apart. Annual revaccination recommended. Not available for sale in MN. Item does not include syringes or needles. Refer to XQ-CT or XQ-CX

So, what is the deal with your vet? Is s/he saying that you need to give an EXTRA shot? Or what does s/he propose?

I would be VERY wary of a vet who advocates over vaccination. How old is the pup? It is my understanding that the shot has to be repeated because the mother's natural immunity may make the vaccine inactive and that is why you give the vaccine 3-4 weeks apart, to keep the protection up, but after 16 weeks the vaccine remains in the pup's system and no further vaccine is necessary.

So, the pup should have a shot at 4 weeks (by your schedule), 7 or 8 weeks and the final one at 11 or 12 weeks...and maybe that is what the vet is saying, that the final vaccine will inhibit the long term affect?

I know of some breeders (and I am also considering this) that give NeoPar (for Parvo) at 4 weeks and then start the regular puppy shots at 6-7 weeks. This way, the pup is protected against Parvo without all of the other junk that is included in the puppy shot...and it also puts the puppy shot into the timeframe that most vets recommend.

But, I'd call the manufacturer and ask them, since they recommend the shot at 4 weeks, what protocol do they recommend for the complete series and why...and then I'd pass that along to the vet. Since puppy shots are not legally required, it really is up to the puppy owner if they get the shots at all! So, I don't think that the vet has that much power over saying whether or not it is "good"!

I would point out, to the vet, that it is the decision of the puppy owner whether or not to vaccinate...and I question his or her motives. ($$)

[Jac]

I posted at the same time Nancy did...I just want to add that Nancy is very knowledgable and has been breeding a long time...I would consider her advice as sound.

The point here, however, is that the shot WAS given at 4 weeks, the manufacturer says it can be...so why should the vet require more...I worry about over vaccination...

Nancy,what is your take on NeoPar? I know of breeders that swear by using it at 4 weeks and then the regular puppy shot at 6 weeks...your thoughts?

[Doodlesville]

Originally Posted by Jac

I posted at the same time Nancy did...I just want to add that Nancy is very knowledgable and has been breeding a long time...I would consider her advice as sound.

The point here, however, is that the shot WAS given at 4 weeks, the manufacturer says it can be...so why should the vet require more...I worry about over vaccination...

Nancy,what is your take on NeoPar? I know of breeders that swear by using it at 4 weeks and then the regular puppy shot at 6 weeks...your thoughts?

Thanks Jac, As far as Neopar,,i have no experience with it, i guess cause with all the precautions i take and the vaccines i currently use (only Intervet progard) I have no need to add anything, knock on wood)
the breeders that i know that use it have had issues with Parvo because of Allowing visitors with there pups, and one of those STILL had parvo yet again in her facility, sooo to answer your question i guess i dont think much of it,

[Doodlesville]

Progard 5 is what i give at 6 9 and 12weeks

i dont give early vaccines

I had nver heard of the restrictions in fla, or such things anywhere, if you are going by what your vets says is what is legal you really need to check with your local government,
you have to keep pups til when? 10weeks? you dont let them go at 8weeks? boy am i confused
sorry gonna reread this again, whatta mess i have never heard such things

[Jac]

Hi Cathy, thanks for explaining...I would think then, that the vet gave the shot at 4 weeks? (not you?) If that is the case, is the same vet now saying it is no good?
Maybe the law requires specific dates? If so, the vet made a mistake and should do whatever is responsible (in the best health of your pup) to remedy it...without charge...
But that is likely not going to happen.
You have interesting laws in your state...I thought that California was strict! LOL
We can't place a pup until it is 8 weeks (although I must admit that those placed at 10 weeks seem to do better) and we have a puppy lemon law, which protects buyers.
Out of curiosity, I think I am going to try to read up on Florida state law regarding pet sales...as a matter of fact, it would be interesting for me to study each state (I went to law school, so the weirdest things interest me! LOL)
So, since it is your state law to administer shots and the vet is saying that 4 weeks is too young, I think that there is likely a standard in place that they are given shots (the 5-way puppy combination) at regular intervals (3-4 weeks apart) until the pup is 14 or 16 weeks, which is the age that most pups get actual, lasting immunity from the shot.
Oh, and I think you asked about the difference between puppy shots and adult dog shots...I think they are the same...they are just called puppy shots to make it easier for new dog owners to relate to. That is one of the bad thing about shots, the doseage is the same for puppies as adults, for tiny pups as huge adult dogs...there is nothing about it that makes sense.
I agree with Nancy, if you have Parvo commonly in your area, I would not allow puppy visits. Still, you will have to make serious precautions about your own activity too, even when you don't have pups, since Parvo lives so long...you could track it in to your home when you don't have a litter.
You might want to consider establishing a place where you step into a bleach solution before entering the house.
Good luck!

[Jac]

Oh, okay, we were posting at the same time!

That makes more sense!

Basically, your vet has to issue a healt certificate and it so your vet is swearing that these things have been properly administered!

This is why most want to give the shots...to be sure...but if you are a breeder, I'd get a good relationship with my vet...invite them to your breeding area, let them inspect your pups, talk to them about your vaccination and deworming protocol, show them what you administer...maybe then the vet will agree to take your word for it that you are giving all of the shots and deworming required by law...and sign the cert.

Not too different from our law to transport a puppy out of state...

[Jac]

Interesting...in a lawyerly way! hahahhaaaa

I know that the various vaccines come with different combinations. You can get Parvo alone, or a triple combination, a 5-way vaccine or 7-way...and we just refer to them all as "puppy" vaccines, 5 way or 7 way...but I do think that the dose is the same for adult dogs. I could be wrong, but that is my understanding.

Okay, now, unless there is more to this law (and usually there is!) here is what I interpret this to say:

...offered for sale within the state, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered by or under the direction of a veterinarian, licensed by the state and accredited by the United States Department of Agriculture, who issues the official certificate of veterinary inspection. The tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics must be administered before the dog is offered for sale in the state, unless the licensed, accredited veterinarian certifies on the official certificate of veterinary inspection that to inoculate or deworm the dog is not in the best medical interest of the dog, in which case the vaccine or anthelmintic may not be administered to that particular dog. Each dog must receive vaccines and anthelmintics against the following diseases and internal parasites

The part in red...the tests must be administered BY OR UNDER THE DIRECTION of the vet (that means anyone that he directs, or gives authority to administer the tests...that could be you as easily as the vet tech). Then the vet ISSUES THE OFICIAL CERTIFICATE OF INSPECTION...which means that the vet is certifying that they have inspected the records or tests and finds them in compliance with the law.

The blue part just means that the tests or shots have to be administered before sold...

There is nothing in this code that requires the vet to do the shots or tests. But it does require that the vet say that he or she inspected the records and PUTS HIS OR HER SEAL OF INSPECTION in approval of compliance with the law...so, I believe that the vet is just covering his or her anatomy...they don't want to certify something that they have not taken part in. Plus...they get more money this way. But there is no part of this code that requires them to give the shot or tests...only to certify that they were done in accordance with the law.

If you wanted to, you could probably get an attorney to write to your vet and explain the law and your rights under the law...they don't charge much for a letter...but your vet still may refuse to certify the dog...this could be an interesting legal challenge (a good law school exam question! hahaha) to determine if the vets are taking unfair advantage of the law in order to increase their revenue. hmmmmm....

[Doodlesville]

But there is no part of this code that requires them to give the shot or tests...only to certify that they were done in accordance with the law.

Thats what i read to, whew,,thought i was loosin it,, hmmm,, whew

[Doodlesville]

Oh my goodness
thats way to much!!!
I would be interviewing other vets as well
god bless you,,Im so sorry you are going thru this