Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust?

cindy456 · 02-02-2009, 11:13 PM

I am looking at getting a labradoodle from a local breeder here in Kansas. I was wondering what the difference is in American and Australian labradoodles and F1B's. There seems to be a large price difference and I just am curious as to why and which one is better (no doubt it will be personal preference, but would like some information). I intend to have the dog as a family pet, but also will be using the dog as a therapy dog in my classroom (when it is old enough, trained, etc).

Thank you, Cindy

tuffystar · 02-02-2009, 11:39 PM

There are plenty of people that know the answer to this question but while you wait try going to the little box up top and type in a search for your question. That will probably give you loads of information. I personally only know the difference between F1 and F1b. A F1 is what Tia is. She is a Labrador and Poodle mix. An F1b is an F1 breed back to a Poodle. After that I am clueless

! Good luck and welcome!

Napathedoodle · 02-03-2009, 01:45 AM

It is, indeed, a personal choice. Some will say that one is better than the other.

Australians, by definition have Irish Water Spaniel and some Cocker in their lines (and some will argue more). However, the buyer should look at the pedigree to determine how recent the infusions are. It's a personal choice. I, for one, didn't want a dog that's been recently infused with non lab or poodle. So, I found an Australian that didn't. As far as I can tell, Napa was last infused with these "alternative" breeds back about 7 to 8 generations ago. So, that's the basic difference. Again, its a personal choice, and it requires the buyer to be a little bit more alert. Not every dog that's called an "Australian" labradoodle is made the same. So, the buyer needs to know what they were comfortable with. At the time, I wasn't comfortable with an F1B crossed with an Australian stud, so I avoided those mixes when I was picking a pup. However, I've since seen that those crosses (can sometimes) produce beautiful fleece coats. What really helped me, since buying Napa, was to just drool over puppies, look at what matings produced what and by listening to breeder chats on some of the forums.

Also, since they tend to be "multigenerational", their sizes and coat types can be more consistent. That's not to say there won't be that fluke- really really curly, or shedding, since we are talking genetics, this is always the case. Also, their size also is usually more proportional in the smaller sizes- but that should be true in any multi-gen, not just Australian, or if the downsize in the F1B was done correctly (within the correct proportions).

The price difference can be explained by the difference in the cost of the breeding stock. This isn't saying one is better than the other. But since the Australian line started in Australia, the cost for a breeding dog is in the tens of thousands. This accounts for the import and the "novelty" of the breed. Most Australians (and the trend is starting to spread to other generations) are Early Spayed or Neutered. For me, this was great. When Napa was 6 months, it was the middle of my finals.... not a great time for him to be needing neutered! Plus, Napa's only attempted to hump me twice in the year and a half we've had him. He's also a squater. He pees like a girl. There's arguements, again, on both sides of this matter. But, it was again, a personal choice for me to choose a breeder who ESN.

For all generations, there are testing costs, breeding costs (stock cost, stud fee, etc.), feeding (increase in appetite), shots once pups are born, etc.

I won't comment on American Multi-gens or F1B's since I've got no personal experience with them. I own an Australian Multi-gen. They're not for everyone, so I'm not trying to pursued you to get one if its not what you want! It was a personal choice I made when I bought Napa, and I would do it again. His personality, his size, and his coat are exactly what I wanted. That's not to say that I couldn't have found a "Napa" in a lower generation or in an American multi-gen.... but at the time, I went with the information I had, and I made the best choice I could with the information I had and what was best for my family.

There are plenty of F1B breeders on here, so I hope they can add to this discussion in the areas I'm not familiar with.

If you are looking for a Therapy Dog, try to go with a line that has documented Therapy or Canine Good Citizen dogs in it. Obviously all pups are different, but a breeder should be able to identify similar traits to those dogs they have produced that have become Therapy dogs, or the like!

Jac · 02-04-2009, 09:00 PM

Kristen has given you great advice!
I agree with her completely.
It is a matter of personal choice and so you are doing the right thing in trying to determine the differences so that you can make an educated choice.
I have no experience with Australian Multigens but I know many breeders who specialize in them, They are great dogs with wonderful qualities and you can find a variety of sizes/colors.
I breed F1B and early generation American lines, consisting of straight Lab/Poodle cross...but I am also venturing into the North American Retriever lines, which is Goldendoodle mated to a Labradoodle.
The first generation (F1) is most likely to shed...although not every F1 will shed. They are also most likely to have the scruffy, Disney Dog appearance. Their coats are easiest to groom even though they shed...most shed only lightly which is still less than normal dogs. They have EXCELLENT temperaments. I really love the F1 generation. I am breeding higher only to improve on the coat.
F1 B dogs are less likely to shed, more likely to have a fleece coat. Many prefer F1B dogs...but, again, it really depends on the parent dogs and the breeder philosophy.
Some F1B dogs are easy to groom but the thicker and more fleece the coat, the more grooming you will have and the wooly coats require almost as much grooming as Poodles. Personality and temperament remains similar to an F1.
I hope this helps...I encourage you to look at the photo gallery to become famiiar with the various generations and their appearances.
I want to stress that the most important part of your decision is selecting the breeder. Choose well, choose carefully. If you have a breeder in mind, please feel free to send me a PM and I will tell you what I know, if anything, about the one you are considering.

cindy456 · 02-04-2009, 10:33 PM

Thank you for answering my questions. I really appreciate it! I find this breed so interesting and full of informaiton. I have tried to read as much as I can but it does get a little confusing sometimes. I believe the intelligence and disposition of the labradoodle is what is drawing me to this breed more than any other. I have loved looking at everyone's pictures of their dog, and they are all so beautiful.

Thank you!! Cindy

Jac · 02-05-2009, 12:07 AM

Cindy, I am so glad that you joined this forum! I hope that you continue to post questions and comments and that when you select your puppy you let us know!
Best wishes!

Maureen · 02-05-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cindy456

Thank you for answering my questions. I really appreciate it! I find this breed so interesting and full of informaiton. I have tried to read as much as I can but it does get a little confusing sometimes. I believe the intelligence and disposition of the labradoodle is what is drawing me to this breed more than any other. I have loved looking at everyone's pictures of their dog, and they are all so beautiful.

Thank you!! Cindy

WELCOME, CINDY!!
Thank you for asking, and being so careful about the choice you make!!
Like Jacque I raise and breed the Labradoodles with Labrador and Poodle in them, not the Australian versions. And like you I LOVE the intelligence and disposition but I also love the DEVOTION that those breeds give us back!
If you have found a good breeder for your choice, then best wishes! And please post your pictures of your Doodle-baby when you have him or her!
thanks,
~M

cindy456 · 02-05-2009, 08:55 PM

Thank you all,

The breeder I have chosen is wonderful and if you knew who she is you would all agree, since she posts here (a lot). I am not sure if I am allowed to say who it is, but she lives VERY close to Wichita (where I live). We have communicated a few times and I think she sounds perfect for me. I won't get a puppy until closer to summer so I can be home with it the first couple of months. Since I am able to make that choice, I think it would be better than getting one now and having to leave it all day. I am so anxious for time to get here so I can pick the puppy out. I still don't know if I want a boy or girl, but there is time to think of that, and I know she will help me to get the right one for me. You will definitely see pictures after I get it, and no doubt a ton of questions to make sure I am raising her/him right.

Cindy

Maureen · 02-05-2009, 09:44 PM

ok, I'm guessing here.....is she in VALLEY CENTER????

If so, it's ok to say so and yes, we're all in agreement that Linda does a GREAT job with her breeding program!

cindy456 · 02-05-2009, 09:58 PM

Yes, she lives in Valley Center and her name is Linda, LOL Figured the "close to Wichita" would give it away. She sounded so wonderful when I emailed her and with her being this close to me really makes me feel comfortable. The litter that I will pick from is from Layla, and I will be able to have 2nd pick of a female or 1st of a male. I am so excited I can hardly stand to wait, but it would be better for a pup to have me home all day for a couple of months to housebreak, and the weather will be great then. This summer will be full of fun and excitement at my house!!

Cindy

**MaxandMe** · 02-09-2009, 06:54 AM

CONGRATS CINDY!!! you're in good hands and can't wait till later to see your new baby doodle and pics!!

deepnite10 · 02-13-2009, 01:07 AM

don t get me wrong one bit..

what confuses me is that a labradoodle is a cross between a lab and poodle..
*labra-doodle*

so how can they say that a labradoodle infused with a spaniel or anyother
breed still be called a labra-doodle

..then by pure definition
a austrialian is not a true labradoodle..

Napathedoodle · 02-13-2009, 08:07 PM

Because then all of your "purebreds" wouldn't be considered what they are either.

Technically, the Australian Labradoodle was first....., and then there were people who broke off....

But, it all comes down to beliefs. Some believe the labradoodle should just be lab and poodle, others (like myself) understand the need for infusions.

So, they're both Labradoodles, because they both started out as labradoodles. But, that's why theres now a difference and there are American and Australian Labradoodles. So, please don't call my labradoodle not a "true labradoodle".... They're different types, which is why there's the new distiction, with different definitions of the breed.

Doodlesville · 02-22-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepnite10

don t get me wrong one bit..

what confuses me is that a labradoodle is a cross between a lab and poodle..
*labra-doodle*

so how can they say that a labradoodle infused with a spaniel or anyother
breed still be called a labra-doodle

..then by pure definition
a austrialian is not a true labradoodle..

Perfectly Put

Jac · 02-24-2009, 06:41 PM

The person posting this has now decided on her puppy and I am happy for her...but I do want to mention a couple of things here...

1) On this forum we love all Doodles!

2) When someone wants to know the difference between the lines and generations, can we please remember that there are people on this forum that adore F1 Doodles, there are people on this forum who believe that F1B Doodles are the best; there are people on this forum who get all mushy at the mention of their dear Australian Multigens...and there is something for everyone here!

3) When we put down one of the Doodle "types" we are bound to hurt someone. Why do we need to do this?

I have an idea! Let's embrace all Doodles...like we have in the past! We don't need to fight amongst ourselves...we have plenty of opinions to battle on the outside...let's keep this forum kind and loving toward each other. Let's respect our individualtiy. Let's embrace all Doodles everywhere! K???

So, when people ask the difference between lines or generations, let's just tell them what we know about the dog we own or love. Keep it positive. There is no need to attack someone elses' pet in order to make ours shine. If you feel that you simply MUST tear down one of these types of Doodles, please send a PM.

Thank you!

02-02-2009, 11:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
cindy456 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 469	Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? I am looking at getting a labradoodle from a local breeder here in Kansas. I was wondering what the difference is in American and Australian labradoodles and F1B's. There seems to be a large price difference and I just am curious as to why and which one is better (no doubt it will be personal preference, but would like some information). I intend to have the dog as a family pet, but also will be using the dog as a therapy dog in my classroom (when it is old enough, trained, etc). Thank you, Cindy __________________ Cindy and Mandy

02-02-2009, 11:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
tuffystar Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 2,292	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? There are plenty of people that know the answer to this question but while you wait try going to the little box up top and type in a search for your question. That will probably give you loads of information. I personally only know the difference between F1 and F1b. A F1 is what Tia is. She is a Labrador and Poodle mix. An F1b is an F1 breed back to a Poodle. After that I am clueless ! Good luck and welcome!

02-03-2009, 01:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
Napathedoodle Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 331	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? It is, indeed, a personal choice. Some will say that one is better than the other. Australians, by definition have Irish Water Spaniel and some Cocker in their lines (and some will argue more). However, the buyer should look at the pedigree to determine how recent the infusions are. It's a personal choice. I, for one, didn't want a dog that's been recently infused with non lab or poodle. So, I found an Australian that didn't. As far as I can tell, Napa was last infused with these "alternative" breeds back about 7 to 8 generations ago. So, that's the basic difference. Again, its a personal choice, and it requires the buyer to be a little bit more alert. Not every dog that's called an "Australian" labradoodle is made the same. So, the buyer needs to know what they were comfortable with. At the time, I wasn't comfortable with an F1B crossed with an Australian stud, so I avoided those mixes when I was picking a pup. However, I've since seen that those crosses (can sometimes) produce beautiful fleece coats. What really helped me, since buying Napa, was to just drool over puppies, look at what matings produced what and by listening to breeder chats on some of the forums. Also, since they tend to be "multigenerational", their sizes and coat types can be more consistent. That's not to say there won't be that fluke- really really curly, or shedding, since we are talking genetics, this is always the case. Also, their size also is usually more proportional in the smaller sizes- but that should be true in any multi-gen, not just Australian, or if the downsize in the F1B was done correctly (within the correct proportions). The price difference can be explained by the difference in the cost of the breeding stock. This isn't saying one is better than the other. But since the Australian line started in Australia, the cost for a breeding dog is in the tens of thousands. This accounts for the import and the "novelty" of the breed. Most Australians (and the trend is starting to spread to other generations) are Early Spayed or Neutered. For me, this was great. When Napa was 6 months, it was the middle of my finals.... not a great time for him to be needing neutered! Plus, Napa's only attempted to hump me twice in the year and a half we've had him. He's also a squater. He pees like a girl. There's arguements, again, on both sides of this matter. But, it was again, a personal choice for me to choose a breeder who ESN. For all generations, there are testing costs, breeding costs (stock cost, stud fee, etc.), feeding (increase in appetite), shots once pups are born, etc. I won't comment on American Multi-gens or F1B's since I've got no personal experience with them. I own an Australian Multi-gen. They're not for everyone, so I'm not trying to pursued you to get one if its not what you want! It was a personal choice I made when I bought Napa, and I would do it again. His personality, his size, and his coat are exactly what I wanted. That's not to say that I couldn't have found a "Napa" in a lower generation or in an American multi-gen.... but at the time, I went with the information I had, and I made the best choice I could with the information I had and what was best for my family. There are plenty of F1B breeders on here, so I hope they can add to this discussion in the areas I'm not familiar with. If you are looking for a Therapy Dog, try to go with a line that has documented Therapy or Canine Good Citizen dogs in it. Obviously all pups are different, but a breeder should be able to identify similar traits to those dogs they have produced that have become Therapy dogs, or the like! __________________ Kristen and Napa-doodle, the chocolate doodle!

02-04-2009, 09:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Jac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: northern California Posts: 9,243	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? Kristen has given you great advice! I agree with her completely. It is a matter of personal choice and so you are doing the right thing in trying to determine the differences so that you can make an educated choice. I have no experience with Australian Multigens but I know many breeders who specialize in them, They are great dogs with wonderful qualities and you can find a variety of sizes/colors. I breed F1B and early generation American lines, consisting of straight Lab/Poodle cross...but I am also venturing into the North American Retriever lines, which is Goldendoodle mated to a Labradoodle. The first generation (F1) is most likely to shed...although not every F1 will shed. They are also most likely to have the scruffy, Disney Dog appearance. Their coats are easiest to groom even though they shed...most shed only lightly which is still less than normal dogs. They have EXCELLENT temperaments. I really love the F1 generation. I am breeding higher only to improve on the coat. F1 B dogs are less likely to shed, more likely to have a fleece coat. Many prefer F1B dogs...but, again, it really depends on the parent dogs and the breeder philosophy. Some F1B dogs are easy to groom but the thicker and more fleece the coat, the more grooming you will have and the wooly coats require almost as much grooming as Poodles. Personality and temperament remains similar to an F1. I hope this helps...I encourage you to look at the photo gallery to become famiiar with the various generations and their appearances. I want to stress that the most important part of your decision is selecting the breeder. Choose well, choose carefully. If you have a breeder in mind, please feel free to send me a PM and I will tell you what I know, if anything, about the one you are considering.

02-04-2009, 10:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
cindy456 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 469	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? Thank you for answering my questions. I really appreciate it! I find this breed so interesting and full of informaiton. I have tried to read as much as I can but it does get a little confusing sometimes. I believe the intelligence and disposition of the labradoodle is what is drawing me to this breed more than any other. I have loved looking at everyone's pictures of their dog, and they are all so beautiful. Thank you!! Cindy __________________ Cindy and Mandy

02-05-2009, 12:07 AM	#6 (permalink)
Jac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: northern California Posts: 9,243	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? Cindy, I am so glad that you joined this forum! I hope that you continue to post questions and comments and that when you select your puppy you let us know! Best wishes!

02-05-2009, 08:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
cindy456 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 469	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? Thank you all, The breeder I have chosen is wonderful and if you knew who she is you would all agree, since she posts here (a lot). I am not sure if I am allowed to say who it is, but she lives VERY close to Wichita (where I live). We have communicated a few times and I think she sounds perfect for me. I won't get a puppy until closer to summer so I can be home with it the first couple of months. Since I am able to make that choice, I think it would be better than getting one now and having to leave it all day. I am so anxious for time to get here so I can pick the puppy out. I still don't know if I want a boy or girl, but there is time to think of that, and I know she will help me to get the right one for me. You will definitely see pictures after I get it, and no doubt a ton of questions to make sure I am raising her/him right. Cindy __________________ Cindy and Mandy

02-05-2009, 09:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
Maureen Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,810	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? ok, I'm guessing here.....is she in VALLEY CENTER???? If so, it's ok to say so and yes, we're all in agreement that Linda does a GREAT job with her breeding program! __________________ ~Maureen LabradoodleRanch@aol.com www.LabradoodleRanch.com

02-05-2009, 09:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
cindy456 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 469	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? Yes, she lives in Valley Center and her name is Linda, LOL Figured the "close to Wichita" would give it away. She sounded so wonderful when I emailed her and with her being this close to me really makes me feel comfortable. The litter that I will pick from is from Layla, and I will be able to have 2nd pick of a female or 1st of a male. I am so excited I can hardly stand to wait, but it would be better for a pup to have me home all day for a couple of months to housebreak, and the weather will be great then. This summer will be full of fun and excitement at my house!! Cindy __________________ Cindy and Mandy

02-09-2009, 06:54 AM	#11 (permalink)
MaxandMe Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Upstate, NY Posts: 15,103	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? CONGRATS CINDY!!! you're in good hands and can't wait till later to see your new baby doodle and pics!! __________________ *Annmarie, Max,& Peanut* "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." Anatole France uncondtional love: what a dog always does for us and humans strive to do but can we?

02-13-2009, 01:07 AM	#12 (permalink)
deepnite10 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 1,353	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? don t get me wrong one bit.. what confuses me is that a labradoodle is a cross between a lab and poodle.. labra-doodle so how can they say that a labradoodle infused with a spaniel or anyother breed still be called a labra-doodle ..then by pure definition a austrialian is not a true labradoodle..

02-13-2009, 08:07 PM	#13 (permalink)
Napathedoodle Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 331	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? Because then all of your "purebreds" wouldn't be considered what they are either. Technically, the Australian Labradoodle was first....., and then there were people who broke off.... But, it all comes down to beliefs. Some believe the labradoodle should just be lab and poodle, others (like myself) understand the need for infusions. So, they're both Labradoodles, because they both started out as labradoodles. But, that's why theres now a difference and there are American and Australian Labradoodles. So, please don't call my labradoodle not a "true labradoodle".... They're different types, which is why there's the new distiction, with different definitions of the breed. __________________ Kristen and Napa-doodle, the chocolate doodle!

02-24-2009, 06:41 PM	#15 (permalink)
Jac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: northern California Posts: 9,243	Re: Differences in F1B and multi gen/Amer or Aust? The person posting this has now decided on her puppy and I am happy for her...but I do want to mention a couple of things here... 1) On this forum we love all Doodles! 2) When someone wants to know the difference between the lines and generations, can we please remember that there are people on this forum that adore F1 Doodles, there are people on this forum who believe that F1B Doodles are the best; there are people on this forum who get all mushy at the mention of their dear Australian Multigens...and there is something for everyone here! 3) When we put down one of the Doodle "types" we are bound to hurt someone. Why do we need to do this? I have an idea! Let's embrace all Doodles...like we have in the past! We don't need to fight amongst ourselves...we have plenty of opinions to battle on the outside...let's keep this forum kind and loving toward each other. Let's respect our individualtiy. Let's embrace all Doodles everywhere! K??? So, when people ask the difference between lines or generations, let's just tell them what we know about the dog we own or love. Keep it positive. There is no need to attack someone elses' pet in order to make ours shine. If you feel that you simply MUST tear down one of these types of Doodles, please send a PM. Thank you!

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