Question about Back Yard Breeders and Puppy Mills

[Sara Davenport]

I just read the lengthy discussion on BYB and PM under the "Considering a labradoodle" category in this forum. Horrifying, to say the least.

As a new doodle owner, that discussion has raised some questions in my mind.

1. Is anyone familiar with the breeder: http://www.labradoodle-ny.com/
I went to his home and looked at his pupplies, all priced at $1500 - $2000, before we decided to adopt Gunner (16 month old rehome). This breeder (local to my home) seemed reputable to me, but I'm very new to dog ownership so I really don't know.

2. Gunner is an F2 labradoodle. All I know about his breeding is that both his parents were F1. I do not know the name of the person who bred him. I only know she is my friend's aunt, and was given to my friend for free. I adopted Gunner from my friend at no charge. I have tried to get her name/email address from my friend, but no luck so far. The breeder may be a BYB for all I know, or perhaps a hobbie breeder. I don't believe she is a PM, because my friend is a true animal lover and I don't believe she would have a good relationship with a woman running a horrible PM. But I'm now thinking that the aunt is not what we all would call a professional breeder.

3. By adopting Gunner I suppose we could say that I did a great thing by giving a doodle a home for free. Or we could say that by taking him in I inadvertently promoted nonprofessional breeding (although I did not pay anything for Gunner - only spent money on the vet and supplies)

4. Very few people on this forum seem to own F2 doodles. I assume that is because they are less desired due to unpredictability in coat/shedding and that most reputable breeders breed F1 or F1Bs. I love Gunner and am thrilled to have him, but again it makes me wonder about the breeder.

5. So Gunner could have genetic deformities that I don't know about. I had him vet checked before I adopted him and our vet said he was in excellent health at the moment, but I now know he may have issues that will surface later. At least Gunner is neutered, so we wont be passing on any issues to the greed.


Any comments or thoughts on the above?

As an aside: All our cats have always been rescues from one place or another: Our first two were found by friends in the road and adopted by us. The next two we adopted from a vets office. The newest one came to our back porch last winter late at night in a snowstorm smelling of skunk and with a bite mark. He went to the vets the next morning and it ended up that our choice was immediate euthanasia or agreeing to adopt him and keep him in quarantine in his own room for 6 months due to NY rabies health laws. Thankfully, he did not have rabies; we all survived the 6 months quarantine; and he ended up with the name "Rex the King of Everything" as he really lived a king's life during that 6 month period. (Private cage, private room, special private play time with us, etc.). So now our home consists of three cats: Rex the King of Everything, Jingle and Sparkle; our rabbit, Sprinkle; and Gunner, the F2 doodle. ( I also own a registered Quarter Horse, but he is boarded at a stable so he is nota actually in our house!)

As far as your question did you promote a bad breeder. Since you rescued Gunner I don't think you can say that. You gave a dog a happy home that didn't have one before. Unfortunately I don't think there is going to be a way to stop BYB and PM. People will not educate themselves and even if they do know for a lot of people price is the deciding factor therefore they go with the cheaper PM or BYB puppy than a more expensive one from a premium breeder. Unfortunately there are many people out there that think they are just "dogs" if he gets sick I will have him put down and get a new one. That kind of thinking is so sad to me. I don't have children yet but I can tell you right now I love my animals more than anything and would do and pay anything to ensure they are healthy and happy!!!!!

[lieverdmom]

Sara.

It's wonderful that you have found Gunner and will provide a good home for him. Thanks for caring enough to seek out a rehome dog.

Yes, the facts about puppy mills and back yard breeders are scary, and outline worst case possibilities for people to understand Before they purchase a dog, so they can be sure to buy from health tested parents.

You have no way of knowing what sort of health testing was done on Gunner. You don't know that it wasn't done. Perhaps it was.

What you Do know is that you have a lovely new friend that your vet has declared to be in good health. If I were you I would not worry about any other warnings, and just enjoy the healthy boy who is a party of your life.

When you are ready to buy your next dog, you'll know to ask pointed questions about health testing, and might even want to see copies of the results.

One other bit of advice you sometimes see online is to not buy from a breeder unless they let you come to their facility and see what it's like. Ironically, when there is a new litter of puppies on the property, born completely devoid of immune systems, each visitor brings a risk of something that could wipe out the entire litter. The breeder who won't let you anywhere Near the new litter is just the one you want to be dealing with. I welcome visitors who are sincere about buying a dog (to the visitors' room only) when I'm between litters, where they can meet my dogs, but once I have a pregnant bitch or a new litter, visitation is quickly shut down. Strangers don't come in, and none of mine go out to a dog park or dog beach.

[Jac]

Hi Sarah,
I absolutely echo what Heather and Deb have said so far.
There is no point in second guessing what happened before you adopted your dear pet. Just love him and learn from the experience.
The reality is that as long as there are people who breed for profit, putting the risk of good health against the cost to prevent diseases, you will find problems.
Is there a way to stop puppy mills and back yard breeders? Probably not...but we might save some lives if we educate people. This is the reason we try.
Thanks for caring and for sharing the issues.
I wish you all the best with your wonderful family!

[blueteal]

Sarah
You opened your home and heart to cats and a dog that needed
you..................so no second guessing, I applaud you for your kindness to animals in need.

[MaxandMe]

Sarah......we can't stop puppymills altogether unfortunately
BUT
by adopting Gunner you ONLY PROMOTED a deep sincere desire to take in a dog and give it the love, time and attention it needs. What can be better than that?
So next time you look deep into Gunner eyes....you'll see you did a wonderful thing for HIM and YOU.
congrats again on having gunner in your heart and your home.

[Tink]

I agree with the others. Just because a dog's not tested doesn't mean they will develop problems. Just because they are is no guarantee they won't. Not knowing if he is or isn't really has no affect on his value to you as a treasured family member.

It sounds like you took in Gunner for all the right reasons so I wish you many happy loving years with him.

[lieverdmom]

It sounds like you took in Gunner for all the right reasons so I wish you many happy loving years with him.

You make an excellent point, Tink. Considering the old adage of, "What goes around comes around.", my guess is that the loving energy extended in the act of adopting Gunner will lead to a long and happy life, with no worries of problems down the line!